Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

[Soloist]

There was a sermon from Finny Kuruvilla about the songs we sing and how carefully they selected the ones they use in worship. Same basic logic.

I used to love "In Christ alone" until I listened to the words. This is why I regard the Christian radio stations as so potentially dangerous.

[Hats Off]

We use a hymn book compiled by the Mennonite Church during their fundamentalist era. The longer I led singing the more difficulty I had in finding songs that reflected what i would like to sing about. It seemed to me there were very few songs that actually reflected our Anabaptist past.

[Ernie]

It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.

I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this quote from a song list you linked seems very similar-

Only to God can I go, because God alone will be my helper. I trust in you, God, in all my distress

Dependence on God alone is definitely a good thing.
What I object to in the earlier song is the "island mentality" or "castle mentality" that excludes others in the church from giving counsel and bearing the burdens with a person.
Many people "tell Jesus only" because they don't want anybody interfering in their business, don't know how to share burdens with other believers in a good way, and don't know how to live interdependently. But they assure you that they have a close relationship with God and that nothing is wrong there at all.
I've been interacting with some folks of this mentality and it has been very difficult.
They can't handle anybody critiquing them in anyway, and they "bite the hand of their shepherds", and then they are hurt if no one stops by to care for them in the particular ways that they want to be cared for.

[Sudsy]

It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.

I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this quote from a song list you linked seems very similar-

Only to God can I go, because God alone will be my helper. I trust in you, God, in all my distress

Dependence on God alone is definitely a good thing.
What I object to in the earlier song is the "island mentality" or "castle mentality" that excludes others in the church from giving counsel and bearing the burdens with a person.
Many people "tell Jesus only" because they don't want anybody interfering in their business, don't know how to share burdens with other believers in a good way, and don't know how to live interdependently. But they assure you that they have a close relationship with God and that nothing is wrong there at all.
I've been interacting with some folks of this mentality and it has been very difficult.
They can't handle anybody critiquing them in anyway, and they "bite the hand of their shepherds", and then they are hurt if no one stops by to care for them in the particular ways that they want to be cared for.

So you are resisting an interpretation of these words to mean our relationship with God is just private and has no communal dimension to dealing with our burdens. If I understand correctly, why do these people withdraw from being interdependent ? Could it be that some Christians are not really burden bearers in prayer and listening but rather are quick to point to some sin that they think may be causing these burdens ? Like Job's friends did ? Or some Christians may lack in trustworthiness and blab around about other people's failures in a condescending way. I believe in what James says about confessing our faults to one another as we need to keep humble but this should be for being able to pray intelligently for one another and pointing others to scriptures to help us through circumstances.

There is, I think, a place for both a private relationship with God where one closes the door to everyone and everything else and also a place for communal sharing. Jesus had both. He did not do everything in community.

[Josh]

John Overholt's The Christian Hymnary has a significantly different theological emphasis than most other contemporary Anabaptist hymnals, probably because he focused so much on trying to translate from the original Ausbund, and because he had such a bee in his bonnet about a few things (such as denouncing Christmas, so no Christmas songs are in the hymnal). I would say that the hymnal overall still has a fundamentalist feel, but it is tempered due to so many inclusions from the Ausbund.

Christian Hymnal feels to me like it has a different theological emphasis than I've been used to. At some point, I need to sit down and categorise its various songs and see what themes emerge. I strongly believe that the longevity of this hymnal has influenced the direction of the CGC, Mennonite. I suspect the recently published new, thin hymnals will eventually alter our long term direction.

[Neto]

Some people claim they don't "hear" the words to a song unless they concentrate on doing so. I thought it was a bunch of malarky when I first heard that, because I hear everything - even the stuff I don't want to. But I've come to accept that it really is true for some people, just not me. So I also realize that some people (like me) tend to be more critical (analytical) of the lyrics than others. Even Amazing Grace makes me a bit uncomfortable, because it isn't really 'grace' that "kept me safe thus far", but rather it was Christ. And the one that puts the whole Trinity Doctrine in song - I know that some here would probably disagree with my hesitation to sing that, but I think that anyone who has read the early anabaptist writings will agree that they would not have sung it.
Some other hymns have had the wording changed in the Mennonite hymnal we have at our church house, like "There is a Fountain". "And sinners plunged beneath that flood" gets changed into something else, I don't remember exactly what, because I still sing it the way it was supposed to be. (I suspect it is because they thought that sounds too much like immersion. As an MB, I was immersed, and I know that the word's etymology involves that meaning, but I am not convinced that the word usage of that period involved that meaning, and there are in fact textual indications that it was not, in the NT. But I won't argue about it, and I don't think that the song was about baptism anyway, if that was their reasoning for changing the words.)
If you get into the modern "worship" choruses, there are many of them that have words I don't sing along on. Someone mentioned views of the atonement represented in songs - I don't think there is a single "view" that could be said to be "the anabaptist view of the atonement", because all of the ones I've seen defended are represented in one passage or another, but none to the exclusion of the others. I will say, however, that I don't think I've ever heard a hymn or chorus that depicts the reconciliation view as represented in the parable of the Loving Father (AKA the prodigal son).

[Mrs.Nisly]

It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.

I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.

We are snowed in here in Central PA. If there is anyone else has the privilege of being snowed in today also, perhaps you would like to make a stab at altering this to fit historic Anabaptist emphases.

I'm also curious if there are Protestant or Catholic groups that would find themselves unaligned with the emphasis of this chorus.

I'm curious as to what historic Anabaptists would find in this chorus not to their belief. My understanding of this chorus is that the Christian life is not meant to be lived on our own strength. This refrain reminds me that I need to rely on God's power to bear my burdens. Actually, imo, instead of saying 'Jesus can help me' I think it more scriptural to say 'The Holy Spirit can help me' as He is the helper that Jesus sent us went He returned to the Father.

But there is another 'alone' song we sing in our MB church that I have often wondered if anyone refuses to sing this line in this hymn. I choke on it myself. The hymn is 'In Christ Alone' -

Note the second verse which says 'the wrath of God was satisfied' which speaks of a penal substitutionary view of the atonement. I thought Anabaptists primarily have a Christus Victor view of the atonement. I think this view is explained well here - http://reknew.org/2008/01/the-christus- ... atonement/

Thoughts ?

Even N T Wright has a problem with this line of this song. He thinks we should change it to "the love of God was satisfied" at least every so often when we sing it. I do just that, when we sing it in church. At least one person in the congregation proclaims that it is primarily God's love that motivated Christ's suffering and death.

[MaxPC]

How would the various Mennonite fellowships go about rectifying their hymnals to reflect proper theology?

[Neto]

It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.

I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.

The discussion on this one is bothering me, too, so I looked this up for the rest of it:

1
I must tell Jesus all of my trials;
I cannot bear these burdens alone;
In my distress He kindly will help me;
He ever loves and cares for His own.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
2
I must tell Jesus all of my troubles;
He is a kind, compassionate Friend;
If I but ask Him, He will deliver,
And in my griefs with me He will blend.
3
Tempted and tried I need a great Savior,
One who can help my burdens to bear;
I must tell Jesus, I must tell Jesus;
He all my cares and sorrows will share,
4
O how the world to evil allures me!
O how my heart is tempted to sin!
I must tell Jesus; He will enable
Over the world the vic’try to win.

(I was also thinking of "In Times Like These", but found different versions, one with YOU need a savior, and another with WE need a savior. I had thought that the first verse said "I need a savior". Also, the other verses as I found them on-line don't sound familiar to me.)

But regarding I Must Tell Jesus, the author does not say that he/she will not tell anyone else. And our primary source of help is still Jesus. But beyond the question of whether the song gives a correct view of appeal to God for help, the question still exists as to whether the early anabaptists would have sung a song like that. It's now been a while since I finished my slow read-through of Martyrs' Mirror, but I do recall that more than once people were asked about who their leaders were, if they were a follower of Menno, etc., and the common answer (as I recall) was that Jesus was their leader. My sense is that the early anabaptists had a deeply personal faith. So I'm a little reserved in saying that they would not have sung a song with lyrics like this.

[RZehr]

There was a time not too long ago that I would have been quite unconcerned about the words of the songs that we sing. I would have thought that they are just songs, and we don't decide what we believe based off songs. When it comes to music and songs, instrumental accompaniment and style of singing get our attention.

But I now believe that the words of the christian songs and hymns we sing and hear, over time, subtly affect the way we think about God and salvation. And when we are challenged on an issue or point, we are hard pressed to explain or defend it because we don't even know why we think it, or where we got it from.