This is a companion thread to the "Philosophical and Theological differences between Anabaptism and Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism" thread. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=426
Someone has said that the songs a group sings over the years become a significant part of their theology.
In this thread I would like to identify songs (or parts of songs) that would align well with the historic Anabaptist, Fundamentalist, and Evangelical theology and also identify ones that don't align well.
Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
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Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
Last edited by Ernie on Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
We are snowed in here in Central PA. If there is anyone else has the privilege of being snowed in today also, perhaps you would like to make a stab at altering this to fit historic Anabaptist emphases.
I'm also curious if there are Protestant or Catholic groups that would find themselves unaligned with the emphasis of this chorus.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
We are snowed in here in Central PA. If there is anyone else has the privilege of being snowed in today also, perhaps you would like to make a stab at altering this to fit historic Anabaptist emphases.
I'm also curious if there are Protestant or Catholic groups that would find themselves unaligned with the emphasis of this chorus.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
If you want to understand historic Anabaptist theology, as revealed in the songs they sang, here is a good place to start.
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/ausbund.htm#5
Can you imagine what would happen to the theology in our churches today if we started singing these songs?
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/ausbund.htm#5
Can you imagine what would happen to the theology in our churches today if we started singing these songs?
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
I was recently thinking of the song "Climg to the Bible". It seems to be quite Fundamental in my thinking.
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
If I recall correctly, Robert Friedmann in Mennonite Piety Through the Centuries specifically analyzed the changes in Mennonite Hymnody as one of the evidences of the shift in Mennonitism from Anabaptism toward Pietism.
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
This one was written by a Baptist...but always struck me as Anabaptist in nature:
- 1 God of grace and God of glory,
on your people pour your power;
crown your ancient church's story,
bring its bud to glorious flower.
Grant us wisdom, grant us courage,
for the facing of this hour,
for the facing of this hour.
2 Lo! the hosts of evil round us
scorn the Christ, assail his ways!
From the fears that long have bound us
free our hearts to faith and praise.
Grant us wisdom, grant us courage,
for the living of these days,
for the living of these days.
3 Cure your children's warring madness;
bend our pride to your control;
shame our wanton, selfish gladness,
rich in things and poor in soul.
Grant us wisdom, grant us courage,
lest we miss your kingdom's goal,
lest we miss your kingdom's goal.
4 Save us from weak resignation
to the evils we deplore;
let the gift of your salvation
be our glory evermore.
Grant us wisdom, grant us courage,
serving you whom we adore,
serving you whom we adore.
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
I've not heard this hymn sung by Anabaptists (at least, not in person), but I think it has some Anabaptist themes:
Here is love, vast as the ocean,
Lovingkindness as the flood,
When the Prince of Life, our Ransom,
Shed for us His precious blood.
Who His love will not remember?
Who can cease to sing His praise?
He can never be forgotten,
Throughout Heav’n’s eternal days.
On the mount of crucifixion,
Fountains opened deep and wide;
Through the floodgates of God’s mercy
Flowed a vast and gracious tide.
Grace and love, like mighty rivers,
Poured incessant from above,
And Heav’n’s peace and perfect justice
Kissed a guilty world in love.
Let me all Thy love accepting,
Love Thee, ever all my days;
Let me seek Thy kingdom only
And my life be to Thy praise;
Thou alone shalt be my glory,
Nothing in the world I see.
Thou hast cleansed and sanctified me,
Thou Thyself hast set me free.
In Thy truth Thou dost direct me
By Thy Spirit through Thy Word;
And Thy grace my need is meeting,
As I trust in Thee, my Lord.
Of Thy fullness Thou art pouring
Thy great love and power on me,
Without measure, full and boundless,
Drawing out my heart to Thee.
I can't find it in The Christian Hymnary or Hymns of the Church ("purple Martin"). A slightly different translation is sung here (youtube, a cappella).
Here is love, vast as the ocean,
Lovingkindness as the flood,
When the Prince of Life, our Ransom,
Shed for us His precious blood.
Who His love will not remember?
Who can cease to sing His praise?
He can never be forgotten,
Throughout Heav’n’s eternal days.
On the mount of crucifixion,
Fountains opened deep and wide;
Through the floodgates of God’s mercy
Flowed a vast and gracious tide.
Grace and love, like mighty rivers,
Poured incessant from above,
And Heav’n’s peace and perfect justice
Kissed a guilty world in love.
Let me all Thy love accepting,
Love Thee, ever all my days;
Let me seek Thy kingdom only
And my life be to Thy praise;
Thou alone shalt be my glory,
Nothing in the world I see.
Thou hast cleansed and sanctified me,
Thou Thyself hast set me free.
In Thy truth Thou dost direct me
By Thy Spirit through Thy Word;
And Thy grace my need is meeting,
As I trust in Thee, my Lord.
Of Thy fullness Thou art pouring
Thy great love and power on me,
Without measure, full and boundless,
Drawing out my heart to Thee.
I can't find it in The Christian Hymnary or Hymns of the Church ("purple Martin"). A slightly different translation is sung here (youtube, a cappella).
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"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
In Catholic World, we would interpret the excerpt of (bolded) lyrics as placing our trust in Jesus as our source of hope... That is if we sang that hymn but we don't sing it so....Ernie wrote:It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
We are snowed in here in Central PA. If there is anyone else has the privilege of being snowed in today also, perhaps you would like to make a stab at altering this to fit historic Anabaptist emphases.
I'm also curious if there are Protestant or Catholic groups that would find themselves unaligned with the emphasis of this chorus.
However:I'm not familiar with the rest of the lyrics and I would need to know all the stanzas to understand the context of that excerpt (vis a vis the rest of the hymn) to see if it truly reflects Catholic theology.
I do agree that hymns form and reinforce our theological mindset. Over the decades, many hymns have entered our hymnaries that aren't original to Catholic sources. Because of that, about 5 or 7 years ago the Magisterium called for a review and editing of all hymnals in our pews: hymns that did not reflect Catholic theology or led to confusion were removed.
We still have "Amazing Grace" and a few other hymns from other traditions, even some from Anabaptist hymnals. Gone are the songs that came from folk guitars in the 1960s and did nothing to help teach the Faith.
In short, the rectification of our hymnals was another cleanup of the post-Vatican 2 decades (60s-90s) where a number of errors and misunderstandings occurred.
I apologize for the long post: as I've said before nothing is ever "simple" in Catholic World. It's always layers upon layers of rationales ad infinitum.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
I'm curious as to what historic Anabaptists would find in this chorus not to their belief. My understanding of this chorus is that the Christian life is not meant to be lived on our own strength. This refrain reminds me that I need to rely on God's power to bear my burdens. Actually, imo, instead of saying 'Jesus can help me' I think it more scriptural to say 'The Holy Spirit can help me' as He is the helper that Jesus sent us went He returned to the Father.Ernie wrote:It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
We are snowed in here in Central PA. If there is anyone else has the privilege of being snowed in today also, perhaps you would like to make a stab at altering this to fit historic Anabaptist emphases.
I'm also curious if there are Protestant or Catholic groups that would find themselves unaligned with the emphasis of this chorus.
But there is another 'alone' song we sing in our MB church that I have often wondered if anyone refuses to sing this line in this hymn. I choke on it myself. The hymn is 'In Christ Alone' -
Note the second verse which says 'the wrath of God was satisfied' which speaks of a penal substitutionary view of the atonement. I thought Anabaptists primarily have a Christus Victor view of the atonement. I think this view is explained well here - http://reknew.org/2008/01/the-christus- ... atonement/
Thoughts ?
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs
Maybe I'm wrong, but this quote from a song list you linked seems very similar-Ernie wrote:It is hard for me to imaging this chorus being sung by historic Anabaptists.
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
I cannot bear my burdens alone;
I must tell Jesus! I must tell Jesus!
Jesus can help me, Jesus alone.
Only to God can I go, because God alone will be my helper. I trust in you, God, in all my distress
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