Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
lesterb
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Alberta
Affiliation: Western Fellowship
Contact:

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by lesterb »

Valerie wrote: What is the issue regarding instruments? Why does it have to be acapella? Are there no instruments allowed in Mennonite churches (at least conservative)? How about personal use of instruments?
It depends on the congregation. In the EPMC churches they used to allow keyboard instruments but nothing with strings. Pilgrim still takes a similar stand. The Nationwide Fellowship doesn't allow instruments at all. In the Western Fellowship, which both RZehr and I are part of some do allow them on a personal level and some don't. All of these groups allow recorded music, but mostly take the same positions that they do with actually playing instruments. There have always been a few congregations who forbid the actual instruments, but allow them in recorded music.
0 x
Valerie
Posts: 5309
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Valerie »

lesterb wrote:
Valerie wrote: What is the issue regarding instruments? Why does it have to be acapella? Are there no instruments allowed in Mennonite churches (at least conservative)? How about personal use of instruments?
It depends on the congregation. In the EPMC churches they used to allow keyboard instruments but nothing with strings. Pilgrim still takes a similar stand. The Nationwide Fellowship doesn't allow instruments at all. In the Western Fellowship, which both RZehr and I are part of some do allow them on a personal level and some don't. All of these groups allow recorded music, but mostly take the same positions that they do with actually playing instruments. There have always been a few congregations who forbid the actual instruments, but allow them in recorded music.
Thanks Lesterb, I see Amish playing guitars (not sure which order) but many don't allow any instruments. Was this from the beginning of the Reformation for some denominations? I'm thinking the ancient churches didn't have instruments either (Orthodox still do not, and I don't understand why). David, a man after God's own heart wrote this Psalm, and in light of that I truly do not understand the rules against instruments, or how/why these developed in some sects:
Psalm 150King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.
0 x
lesterb
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Alberta
Affiliation: Western Fellowship
Contact:

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by lesterb »

Valerie wrote: Thanks Lesterb, I see Amish playing guitars (not sure which order) but many don't allow any instruments. Was this from the beginning of the Reformation for some denominations? I'm thinking the ancient churches didn't have instruments either (Orthodox still do not, and I don't understand why). David, a man after God's own heart wrote this Psalm, and in light of that I truly do not understand the rules against instruments, or how/why these developed in some sects:
Psalm 150King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.
I don't know of any Amish that would allow church members to play guitars. The Old Orders in my background played harmonicas, but nothing else. In a lot of cases, Mennonites won't allow instruments because of the kind of music they open the door to.

I was trying to find that painting by Rembrandt of an Anabaptist family where they had an instrument hanging on a post, but I couldn't find it. Maybe it wasn't Rembrandt.
0 x
Neto
Posts: 4579
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Holmes County, Ohio
Affiliation: Gospel Haven

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Neto »

lesterb wrote: I don't know of any Amish that would allow church members to play guitars. The Old Orders in my background played harmonicas, but nothing else.
I suppose they don't really "allow" it, but here in Holmes County there are a number of Old Order Amish young people who play guitar and even electronic keyboards & "box drums" openly in public performances. I don't know for certain, but I think that some of these people are baptized members. I would say that this has become more common in the last 10 years or so.
0 x
Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
Valerie
Posts: 5309
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Valerie »

Neto wrote:
lesterb wrote: I don't know of any Amish that would allow church members to play guitars. The Old Orders in my background played harmonicas, but nothing else.
I suppose they don't really "allow" it, but here in Holmes County there are a number of Old Order Amish young people who play guitar and even electronic keyboards & "box drums" openly in public performances. I don't know for certain, but I think that some of these people are baptized members. I would say that this has become more common in the last 10 years or so.
Not sure how widespread that is- but yes, a former Amish friend used to drive an Amish teenager to his guitar lessons, his father (Amish) approved.
Enjoy:




These look like Pennsylvania Amish, not Holmes (by the headcovering)


Perhaps the 'stringed instruments' mentioned in Psalm 150 would have caused them to allow it?
0 x
Valerie
Posts: 5309
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Valerie »

Soloist wrote:There was a sermon from Finny Kuruvilla about the songs we sing and how carefully they selected the ones they use in worship. Same basic logic.

I used to love "In Christ alone" until I listened to the words. This is why I regard the Christian radio stations as so potentially dangerous.
Anabaptists singing "In Christ Alone"- (actually this song was written by an Irish couple who attended our present Church (Evangelical)

0 x
Sudsy
Posts: 5856
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Sudsy »

Valerie wrote:
Soloist wrote:There was a sermon from Finny Kuruvilla about the songs we sing and how carefully they selected the ones they use in worship. Same basic logic.

I used to love "In Christ alone" until I listened to the words. This is why I regard the Christian radio stations as so potentially dangerous.
Anabaptists singing "In Christ Alone"- (actually this song was written by an Irish couple who attended our present Church (Evangelical)

+

Beautiful !!! Thankyou for the link.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Post Reply