Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Dan Z
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Dan Z »

John D. Martin and company were quite deliberate in putting together a Kingdom oriented/Anabaptist hymnal recently as an answer to the concerns that RZehr is raising...and the result is an excellent resource that is full of hymns that are much more compatible with our theology.

For the sake of our worldview...I hope it really takes off.
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RZehr
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by RZehr »

Dan Z wrote:John D. Martin and company were quite deliberate in putting together a Kingdom oriented/Anabaptist hymnal recently as an answer to the concerns that RZehr is raising...and the result is an excellent resource that is full of hymns that are much more compatible with our theology.

For the sake of our worldview...I hope it really takes off.
That is great. But the hymns we sing in church are, I suppose, say 50% of the influence. My type of church says we ought only to listen to accapella songs. So we buy CD's that are accapella, but give little to no thought about the sort of songs that they are. This is the other 50% of the influence.
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Josh
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Josh »

RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote:John D. Martin and company were quite deliberate in putting together a Kingdom oriented/Anabaptist hymnal recently as an answer to the concerns that RZehr is raising...and the result is an excellent resource that is full of hymns that are much more compatible with our theology.

For the sake of our worldview...I hope it really takes off.
That is great. But the hymns we sing in church are, I suppose, say 50% of the influence. My type of church says we ought only to listen to accapella songs. So we buy CD's that are accapella, but give little to no thought about the sort of songs that they are. This is the other 50% of the influence.
In my circles this is now used as an argument against acapella recordings - that they are a gateway to listening to music with questionable lyrics. Better / safer to only listen to live singing.
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Valerie
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote:John D. Martin and company were quite deliberate in putting together a Kingdom oriented/Anabaptist hymnal recently as an answer to the concerns that RZehr is raising...and the result is an excellent resource that is full of hymns that are much more compatible with our theology.

For the sake of our worldview...I hope it really takes off.
That is great. But the hymns we sing in church are, I suppose, say 50% of the influence. My type of church says we ought only to listen to accapella songs. So we buy CD's that are accapella, but give little to no thought about the sort of songs that they are. This is the other 50% of the influence.
In my circles this is now used as an argument against acapella recordings - that they are a gateway to listening to music with questionable lyrics. Better / safer to only listen to live singing.
But then we sing ourselves, that which we hear live and learn- so what's the difference if we listen to recorded, or we find ourselves singing the songs we learn 'live'- could this be a case of straining a gnat while swallowing a camel? (Matthew 23:24) or is it a concern that listening to cd's is brainwashing?
What is the issue regarding instruments? Why does it have to be acapella? Are there no instruments allowed in Mennonite churches (at least conservative)? How about personal use of instruments?
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Josh
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Josh »

My particular church does not use musical instruments at all anywhere, whether in church or at home, or in the form of a recording. This is not because we feel doing so is unbiblical, but because we have not witnessed long term spiritual fruit from embracing recorded music and playing modern instruments.

When songs are sung live (particularly in church where there is more accountability and supervision from responsible people in the church), there is less opportunity for questionable songs to creep in.
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RZehr
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by RZehr »

I don't think listening to songs with less then best words is super dangerous. I just haven't seen much bad come of it, other than some wrong thinking. So if there is something simple we can do to encourage better songs, like using better song books, then I'd be for it. But I don't know of an effective way to create an recorded musical ecosystem that only has the best songs in it. And I think with a healthy church, with good teaching we can accomplish the same thing.
It was just an observation I was making about the recorded music.
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Josh
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Josh »

RZehr wrote:I don't think listening to songs with less then best words is super dangerous. I just haven't seen much bad come of it, other than some wrong thinking. So if there is something simple we can do to encourage better songs, like using better song books, then I'd be for it. But I don't know of an effective way to create an recorded musical ecosystem that only has the best songs in it. And I think with a healthy church, with good teaching we can accomplish the same thing.
It was just an observation I was making about the recorded music.
Would this apply to listening to secular music as well? And rap /hip hop with very worldly themes?

Where is the dividing line?
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RZehr
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by RZehr »

Josh wrote:
RZehr wrote:I don't think listening to songs with less then best words is super dangerous. I just haven't seen much bad come of it, other than some wrong thinking. So if there is something simple we can do to encourage better songs, like using better song books, then I'd be for it. But I don't know of an effective way to create an recorded musical ecosystem that only has the best songs in it. And I think with a healthy church, with good teaching we can accomplish the same thing.
It was just an observation I was making about the recorded music.
Would this apply to listening to secular music as well? And rap /hip hop with very worldly themes?

Where is the dividing line?
No. The less then best words I had in mind, are songs like 'Cling to the Bible', Christian hymns and songs which may not have the best biblical concepts embedded in the words. But nor will they drag one down spiritually, or incite wicked imaginations and pull one away from God.

I don't see a problem with silly old songs like 'Old McDonald Had A Farm', or songs like 'Happy Birthday'.
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Sudsy
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by Sudsy »

I have heard people say they don't care for the words in the 'Old Rugged Cross' hymn. Some find it draws attention too much to the cross itself and sounds like idol worship. Has anyone else heard this critique before ?

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ken_sylvania
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Re: Philosophical and Theological Emphases - Songs

Post by ken_sylvania »

Sudsy wrote:I have heard people say they don't care for the words in the 'Old Rugged Cross' hymn. Some find it draws attention too much to the cross itself and sounds like idol worship. Has anyone else heard this critique before ?

I think I have heard that before, but in light of Galations 6:14 I don't see much of a problem with it myself.
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