Philosophical and Theological differences between Anabaptism and Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism

[Judas Maccabeus]

Fundamentalism according to Wikipedia first established 5 fundamentals that Christianity is based on -
1) Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture
2) Virgin birth of Jesus
3) Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
4) Bodily resurrection of Jesus
5) Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

I believe most Anabaptists, Evangelicals, Protestants and Roman Catholics would agree these are foundational Christian beliefs. Yes ?

Only those Anabaptists that have been influenced by Protestant and Catholic theology.

An Anabaptist in the 1500s would have been very puzzled if you thought these were foundational.

I'm not puzzled because I know where this comes from, however as an Anabaptist in the 21st century, I don't consider all of these foundational.

Which of the above 5 would you have an issue with?

J.M.

[Josh]

Fundamentalism according to Wikipedia first established 5 fundamentals that Christianity is based on -
1) Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture
2) Virgin birth of Jesus
3) Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
4) Bodily resurrection of Jesus
5) Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

Which of the above 5 would you have an issue with?

Well, our forefather Abraham didn't have any of these things, yet by faith he was accepted by God. David didn't have any of these things, yet he was a man after God's own heart.

Jesus' own disciples lacked these things. Jesus never went around proclaiming that his mother gave birth to him when she was a virgin. Jesus didn't talk much about the infallibility of scripture, although he was liberal in quoting it.

Jesus called men to repent of their sins and to follow him. He didn't talk to much about how he was going to "atone" for their sins in some future event; instead, he told them to lay aside their old life and start following him immediately.

Jesus did talk about his resurrection. Yet even this, like the virgin birth, seems more something aimed at showing that prophecy was fulfilled. The same goes for miracles: they were a sign (to those people at that time) that someone had God's favour and was someone who could be trusted.

Most of Jesus' words have nothing to do with the five things listed above. The five things above certainly aren't what the kingdom of heaven is about.

[Ernie]

I think this dialog represents a distinct difference.

For me, I chose to separate over adultery or apparent adultery (married brother involved with a divorced sister).

Curious - since Jesus said adultery does not need be outward but can be a sin committed in the heart (lusting), where can you go that this is not happening.

That's like saying that I shouldn't bother to quit going to a church where someone is openly murdering people, just because some brothers might be harbouring hatred in their hearts towards another brother.
1 Corinthians 5 is very clear. Sexual immorality such as is disgraceful even amongst the Gentiles is not to be permitted in the church. I will not call someone a "brother" who is engaging in open adultery.

In general, I think that Western Evangelicals introduce caveats and exceptions into the discussion which ends up allowing for a rather murky outcome.
In general, the historic Anabaptist pattern is to look for scriptural precepts and seek to implement them to best of their ability. However, this did not originate with the Anabaptists nor is it limited to the Anabaptists today. There have been many groups down through the years who have modeled a similar motif.

[MaxPC]

Fundamentalism according to Wikipedia first established 5 fundamentals that Christianity is based on -
1) Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture
2) Virgin birth of Jesus
3) Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
4) Bodily resurrection of Jesus
5) Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

I believe most Anabaptists, Evangelicals, Protestants and Roman Catholics would agree these are foundational Christian beliefs. Yes ?

Only those Anabaptists that have been influenced by Protestant and Catholic theology.

Which of the above 5 would you have an issue with?

J.M.

X2 re which of the 5?

Also, is it possible that Menno Simons' Catholic seminary education influenced some of his theology?

[Mrs.Nisly]

I think I wrote this down from Leroy Beachy's "Unser Leit".

The Amish constitute a historical group of devout believers who follow a literal N T interpretation with special emphasis on the Sermon on the Mount. This interpretation calls for:
A brotherhood way of life.
Non conformity to the larger society.
Non resistance to all forms of evil or strife.
Mutual aid with the brotherhood.
Charity to "all men".
Voluntary church membership.
Cross bearing in Christian life.
Excommunication and shunning of transgressors.

2.) The Amish were heirs of a long and notable tradition of rural living that expressed itself in the practice of intensive and constructive farming methods.

3.) The Amish consider themselves to be unique preservers of a faith and a way of life. For this faith and way of life their ancestors had suffered and paid great prices in lives and in treasures. This belief and willingness to sacrifice and run a risk for it underlay their migration to America.....

These German speaking people coming to an English colony in America has been called a courageous venture and in no other time have a group of people immigrated to create a new life as independently and without sovereign protection, without being able to read laws, speak language, know customs and culture, and do it all without fighting for rights and security.

All they had was each other and their faith in God.

Contrast this mentality with contemporary Fundimentalism/evangelicalism and you will get a sense of the very big difference.

[Dan Z]

Fundamentalism according to Wikipedia first established 5 fundamentals that Christianity is based on -
1) Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture
2) Virgin birth of Jesus
3) Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
4) Bodily resurrection of Jesus
5) Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

I believe most Anabaptists, Evangelicals, Protestants and Roman Catholics would agree these are foundational Christian beliefs. Yes ?

I don't think the point is which of these would Anabaptists have an issue with. I suspect most conservative Anabaptists would likely give an "amen" to all five "fundamentals" individually.

But this list defining fundamentalism illustrates some of the key difference we've been talking about:

• 1) It rightly places Biblical infallibility at the top of the list...fundamentalists are people of the "word" (the Bible) while Anabaptists are people of the "Word" (Christ - the Logos of God).
  
  2) It defines fundamentalism in doctrinal terms...fundamentalists are centered on orthodoxy (right beliefs) while Anabaptists are centered on orthopraxy (right practice).

Anabaptism is a discipleship oriented tradition - the community of faith is defined by living out the teachings and example of Jesus (as understood by the Anabaptists). Fundamentalism is a doctrine oriented tradition - the community of faith is defined by affirming the propositional faith of Scripture (as understood by the Fundamentalists).

[Sudsy]

Fundamentalism according to Wikipedia first established 5 fundamentals that Christianity is based on -
1) Biblical inspiration and the infallibility of scripture
2) Virgin birth of Jesus
3) Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
4) Bodily resurrection of Jesus
5) Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

I believe most Anabaptists, Evangelicals, Protestants and Roman Catholics would agree these are foundational Christian beliefs. Yes ?

I don't think the point is which of these would Anabaptists have an issue with. I suspect most conservative Anabaptists would likely give an "amen" to all five "fundamentals" individually.

But this list defining fundamentalism illustrates some of the key difference we've been talking about:

• 1) It rightly places Biblical infallibility at the top of the list...fundamentalists are people of the "word" (the Bible) while Anabaptists are people of the "Word" (Christ - the Logos of God).
  
  2) It defines fundamentalism in doctrinal terms...fundamentalists are centered on orthodoxy (right beliefs) while Anabaptists are centered on orthopraxy (right practice).

Anabaptism is a discipleship oriented tradition - the community of faith is defined by living out the teachings and example of Jesus (as understood by the Anabaptists). Fundamentalism is a doctrine oriented tradition - the community of faith is defined by affirming the propositional faith of Scripture (as understood by the Fundamentalists).

Thanks DanZ. The bolded part of DanZs post here was all I was trying to say when I said they were foundational Christian beliefs. Perhaps a better term would have been 'shared' beliefs ? Are there any Anabaptists that would say these are not shared beliefs amongst all born again Christians ? From all the Anabaptists I know, if they were to be asked if these 5 include the beliefs they hold to, they would say 'yes for sure'.

[Jazman]

Good stuff everyone; maybe this is a diversion, but how would you explain these differences to people who think they're anabaptists/mennonites but who really aren't according to the differences given so far? How would you gently, charitably explain to someone in my church (Lanc Conf Mennonite) who says he's evangelical and mennonite/anabaptist but in every area (except maybe the serve-in-the-military one) is a through and through God & country, revivalist-oriented, Protestant evangelical? Where would you start?

[Ernie]

One place to start would be to refer to verses like these and explain how historic Anabaptists interpreted and applied these verses differently from how many in the church are interpreting and applying these verses.

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this:... to keep oneself unstained from the world."
"Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting,"
"and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place...”
"How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?"
(these last two have to do with all the lifting up of certain individuals, whether in the church or in the community)

Doing something like this would only resonate with the more honest in the church.

The rest would only be convicted when they see a thriving community that is engaging with the world but not being influenced by the world. Some would handle the conviction by trying to find fault with the community or try to marginalize it. A few might acknowledge that this is really what Christianity should look like.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Only those Anabaptists that have been influenced by Protestant and Catholic theology.

Which of the above 5 would you have an issue with?

J.M.

X2 re which of the 5?

Also, is it possible that Menno Simons' Catholic seminary education influenced some of his theology?

Doubt it. From his own words, he did not have much of an education.

J.M.