Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pm
I think some of us from growing up as atheists really see something different here. If Christian's just support the worlds system of unethical vaccines we have nothing more to offer for the unbelievers out there. So until you stop agreeing with the world I don't think we have much hope in calling people into the kingdom of God - that is a real burden to me.
When it comes to the efficacy of vaccines, I think we are just agreeing with different parts of the world. Tucker Carlson says something, within a few days it shows up here.
The real problem is that the Kingdom of God isn't much of what we talk about here. Advocating for "alternative facts", mostly from right-wing American politics, sucks up all the oxygen. The Kingdom of God isn't much of a topic on MN. I sure hope the Kingdom of God doesn't require me to agree with right-wing American politics and "alternative facts".
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pmI don't care who is right here but the message all you vaccine supporters are sending to all my extended family who are in the world is that God has nothing more to offer than man has to offer them.
To be blunt, I think an awful lot of American Christianity has associated itself with right-wing American politics to the extent that nobody has any idea what we mean by the Kingdom of God. It's not much of a theme here on MN. I don't see much of a vision for it here.
So how do we make room for the Kingdom of God? How do we communicate the vision of the Kingdom of God as Jesus taught it? Something's got to give if we want that to happen.
2 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
So my friend, why not define the "Kingdom of God" rather than arguing about how we function in it or don't function in it? The other question that is begging to be asked is, Is the Kingdom of God here and now and how to de we "see" it and "enter" it? Let's focus on the important things, rather than the peripheral points of disagreement???
1 x
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth.
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pm
I think some of us from growing up as atheists really see something different here. If Christian's just support the worlds system of unethical vaccines we have nothing more to offer for the unbelievers out there. So until you stop agreeing with the world I don't think we have much hope in calling people into the kingdom of God - that is a real burden to me.
When it comes to the efficacy of vaccines, I think we are just agreeing with different parts of the world. Tucker Carlson says something, within a few days it shows up here.
The real problem is that the Kingdom of God isn't much of what we talk about here. Advocating for "alternative facts", mostly from right-wing American politics, sucks up all the oxygen. The Kingdom of God isn't much of a topic on MN. I sure hope the Kingdom of God doesn't require me to agree with right-wing American politics and "alternative facts".
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pmI don't care who is right here but the message all you vaccine supporters are sending to all my extended family who are in the world is that God has nothing more to offer than man has to offer them.
To be blunt, I think an awful lot of American Christianity has associated itself with right-wing American politics to the extent that nobody has any idea what we mean by the Kingdom of God. It's not much of a theme here on MN. I don't see much of a vision for it here.
So how do we make room for the Kingdom of God? How do we communicate the vision of the Kingdom of God as Jesus taught it? Something's got to give if we want that to happen.
Wade is not political. I highly doubt he has a TV or reads much American news at all. Wade represents the kingdom far better then most Christians I know running around in Menno circles. Stop saying he is ideological and representing American politics. Nothing about the fetal cell connection is alternative facts... I don't even know who Tucker is and I doubt Wade is particularly well informed as to who he is either.
1 x
Soloist, but I hate singing alone Soloist, but my wife posts with me Soloist, but I believe in community Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:19 am
Wade is not political. I highly doubt he has a TV or reads much American news at all. Wade represents the kingdom far better then most Christians I know running around in Menno circles. Stop saying he is ideological and representing American politics. Nothing about the fetal cell connection is alternative facts...
I agree that Wade is not political. I also agree that the fetal cell connection is real. In the "ethics" thread, I have said that I understand and respect that position. As I understood that thread, the two positions seem to be (1) I don't want to profit in any way from an abortion, versus (2) I don't want to encourage new abortions, but I am willing to use a vaccine tested with cells derived from a 1973 abortion because I do not think the abortion was done in order to obtain the cells and getting the vaccine can save lives today. I think there are serious Christians, committed to the Kingdom of God, who take both of these positions.
But the "alternative facts" about the effectiveness of vaccines is very closely tied to American politics and political personalities. The ethical position you and Wade take is not, few American politicians would advocate for that stance.
I would like to see both you and Wade say more about building the Kingdom of God around us. I suspect that's the kind of thing many of us are actually here for. And I would like to see various approaches from different people.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pm
I think some of us from growing up as atheists really see something different here. If Christian's just support the worlds system of unethical vaccines we have nothing more to offer for the unbelievers out there. So until you stop agreeing with the world I don't think we have much hope in calling people into the kingdom of God - that is a real burden to me.
When it comes to the efficacy of vaccines, I think we are just agreeing with different parts of the world. Tucker Carlson says something, within a few days it shows up here.
The real problem is that the Kingdom of God isn't much of what we talk about here. Advocating for "alternative facts", mostly from right-wing American politics, sucks up all the oxygen. The Kingdom of God isn't much of a topic on MN. I sure hope the Kingdom of God doesn't require me to agree with right-wing American politics and "alternative facts".
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pmI don't care who is right here but the message all you vaccine supporters are sending to all my extended family who are in the world is that God has nothing more to offer than man has to offer them.
To be blunt, I think an awful lot of American Christianity has associated itself with right-wing American politics to the extent that nobody has any idea what we mean by the Kingdom of God. It's not much of a theme here on MN. I don't see much of a vision for it here.
So how do we make room for the Kingdom of God? How do we communicate the vision of the Kingdom of God as Jesus taught it? Something's got to give if we want that to happen.
Wade isn’t in America, so it seems odd you’re talking about what’s wrong with “American Christianity” in reference to him.
Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:19 am
Wade is not political. I highly doubt he has a TV or reads much American news at all. Wade represents the kingdom far better then most Christians I know running around in Menno circles. Stop saying he is ideological and representing American politics. Nothing about the fetal cell connection is alternative facts...
I agree that Wade is not political. I also agree that the fetal cell connection is real. In the "ethics" thread, I have said that I understand and respect that position. As I understood that thread, the two positions seem to be (1) I don't want to profit in any way from an abortion, versus (2) I don't want to encourage new abortions, but I am willing to use a vaccine tested with cells derived from a 1973 abortion because I do not think the abortion was done in order to obtain the cells and getting the vaccine can save lives today. I think there are serious Christians, committed to the Kingdom of God, who take both of these positions.
But the "alternative facts" about the effectiveness of vaccines is very closely tied to American politics and political personalities. The ethical position you and Wade take is not, few American politicians would advocate for that stance.
I would like to see both you and Wade say more about building the Kingdom of God around us. I suspect that's the kind of thing many of us are actually here for. And I would like to see various approaches from different people.
From my frame of reference in the area I live in I have literally heard a number of people say that the only thing going to save humanity from COVID is a/the vaccine. There is so much fear around getting sick and dying people are looking for a saviour in man's science - that is where people's hope is lying who do not have hope in Christ and the kingdom of God.
Early on some were qouting ridiculous doctors saying crazy things like for example "Covid spares no one"... Actually over 99% of people survive from it... That is no where near sharing the hope we can have in Christ and I've seen that same attitude continue on in Covid vaccine supporters.
Ok, yes this is a generalization and I agree not everyone is this way but for the most part the worldly people I know have placed their faith in a vaccine and it appeases them enough that they feel no need of Christ.
When people are looking for hope I don't think any supporter of the vaccine is sending a clear message the only hope is in Christ and a better way of being part of the kingdom of God. But, again since the people I relate to on a personal level seem to live in fear that is why I feel that way.
Let's really be careful and intentional in what kingdom we are promoting and supporting.
God sent Jesus, his son, to save humanity from eternal death.
God didn't send vaccines, however, to save mankind from death. Yet the message from the non-Christian mainstream culture is that vaccines are the only path to life, and rejecting vaccines means death. It's very much a false gospel - a false "kingdom" to enter into.
When God sent his son, people routinely died of all kinds of diseases. Yet Jesus didn't come to earth and spread a good news of medicines and vaccines; he came with a very different message of eternal life for all who believed in him.
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pm
I think some of us from growing up as atheists really see something different here. If Christian's just support the worlds system of unethical vaccines we have nothing more to offer for the unbelievers out there. So until you stop agreeing with the world I don't think we have much hope in calling people into the kingdom of God - that is a real burden to me.
When it comes to the efficacy of vaccines, I think we are just agreeing with different parts of the world. Tucker Carlson says something, within a few days it shows up here.
The real problem is that the Kingdom of God isn't much of what we talk about here. Advocating for "alternative facts", mostly from right-wing American politics, sucks up all the oxygen. The Kingdom of God isn't much of a topic on MN. I sure hope the Kingdom of God doesn't require me to agree with right-wing American politics and "alternative facts".
Wade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:18 pmI don't care who is right here but the message all you vaccine supporters are sending to all my extended family who are in the world is that God has nothing more to offer than man has to offer them.
To be blunt, I think an awful lot of American Christianity has associated itself with right-wing American politics to the extent that nobody has any idea what we mean by the Kingdom of God. It's not much of a theme here on MN. I don't see much of a vision for it here.
So how do we make room for the Kingdom of God? How do we communicate the vision of the Kingdom of God as Jesus taught it? Something's got to give if we want that to happen.
Wade isn’t in America, so it seems odd you’re talking about what’s wrong with “American Christianity” in reference to him.
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:21 pmThat's news to me. When did he move away?
I'm fairly certain he's in the Great White North, as quite a few of our posters here on MennoNet are. (One of my complaints with a certain sector of MennoNet is that it retains a strictly American perspective on things; a proper Mennonite perspective should at least include America and Canada, and a realistic one would include quite a few other places, such as Mexico, Brazil, and Haiti.)
My own church is roughly 20% Canadian and the current issues in Canada (and lack of travel opportunities) represents serious challenges to continuing the practice of Christian life and also to maintaining unity. The church of God should not be divided by national borders, and sound doctrine does not change based on political boundaries.
