Doctrine of Salvation?

[Heirbyadoption]

Someone who feels that their salvation is assured, however salvation is defined, lacks any motive to study and seek truth.

I've been wrestling over whether to respond to this or not, as I'm not looking to be nitpicky, but your comment here makes me think of my marriage. Just because I'm now married to my wife doesn't diminish my appreciation for her nor my desire to know more about her nor my desire to strengthen that bond, but rather just the opposite. A relationship with Jesus Christ ought to do the same...

"I don't think the definition of salvation is the important part. The important part is whether or not salvation is assured."

I might just touch on this briefly too, by way of disagreement. I appreciate how you clarified that you are not a Christian, that you don't share a belief in the reality of several of the fundamental Christian tenets like heaven, hell, etc, and that your concept of salvation is essentially genetic continuance. It's an interesting concept of "salvation", certainly. Having said that, I do believe you ought to seriously consider retitling your thread to something that more accurately expresses your definition/perception of "salvation", because the (genetic) salvation you speak of for yourself, and that of which you are asking Mennonite/Anabaptist definitions for, are radically different concepts based on radically different perceptions of reality, and it is somewhat misleading to address them in the same context. Just my two cents...

[Josh]

Someone who feels that their salvation is assured, however salvation is defined, lacks any motive to study and seek truth.

I've been wrestling over whether to respond to this or not, as I'm not looking to be nitpicky, but your comment here makes me think of my marriage. Just because I'm now married to my wife doesn't diminish my appreciation for her nor my desire to know more about her nor my desire to strengthen that bond, but rather just the opposite. A relationship with Jesus Christ ought to do the same...

"I don't think the definition of salvation is the important part. The important part is whether or not salvation is assured."

I might just touch on this briefly too, by way of disagreement. I appreciate how you clarified that you are not a Christian, that you don't share a belief in the reality of several of the fundamental Christian tenets like heaven, hell, etc, and that your concept of salvation is essentially genetic continuance. It's an interesting concept of "salvation", certainly. Having said that, I do believe you ought to seriously consider retitling your thread to something that more accurately expresses your definition/perception of "salvation", because the (genetic) salvation you speak of for yourself, and that of which you are asking Mennonite/Anabaptist definitions for, are radically different concepts based on radically different perceptions of reality, and it is somewhat misleading to address them in the same context. Just my two cents...

Yet what he’s asking about is quite close to the Old Order / non-evangelical view of “salvation”. For example, in Hutterite thinking, a reason to live communally is endeavouring to leave a cultural inheritance to one’s children that they, too, will live out a nonresistant life.

It seems fair to let someone seek non evangelical alignments and belief systems - considering most Christians alive today aren’t even “evangelical”, which is primarily an American-invented religion.

[Heirbyadoption]

Yet what he’s asking about is quite close to the Old Order / non-evangelical view of “salvation”. For example, in Hutterite thinking, a reason to live communally is endeavouring to leave a cultural inheritance to one’s children that they, too, will live out a nonresistant life.

As ever, the rapidity and regularity of your responses on here is indeed noteworthy, sir. Having said that, I stand by my previous statement regarding the disparity in "salvation" concepts, though certain you're free to disagree with it. As for the Hutterite concept of cultural perpetuity through communal living, cultural perpetuity is hardly the same as the Scriptural concept of "salvation" as referenced in the Scriptures (regardless how one feels that "salvation" is attained, maintained, or assured), though it is indeed closer to Franklin's professed definition of "salvation."

It seems fair to let someone seek non evangelical alignments and belief systems - considering most Christians alive today aren’t even “evangelical”, which is primarily an American-invented religion.

People can seek anything they want, yes. None of my comments suggested they can't. My point was simply to point out that placing a "long term evolutionary success" concept such as "genetic perpetuity" and the Biblical concept of "salvation from sin" in the same apple basket for discussion and comparison is misleading and frankly would be irresponsible to downplay...

[Josh]

Franklin’s perspective is to define salvation from an Old Testament lens; consider the promise made to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as grains of sand on the seashore.

It’s true that the modern day evangelical has an entirely different worldview of salvation. I would hesitate, however, to say that one is more “correct” than the other.

[Sudsy]

Salvation has always been on the same base - by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Not in a church or church community or good deeds or living by some law. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8-9

https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testam ... ation.html

[Joy]

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. [1John 5:13 NASB20]

[Sudsy]

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. [1John 5:13 NASB20]

Amen ! I like the simple way this guy explains it -

[joshuabgood]

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. [1John 5:13 NASB20]

Amen ! I like the simple way this guy explains it -

The Ligonier folks are far from an Anabaptist view of salvation.

[Josh]

Salvation has always been on the same base - by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Not in a church or church community or good deeds or living by some law. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8-9

https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testam ... ation.html

This is entirely Lutheran soteriology and isn’t shared by other branches of Christianity; specifically, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anabaptism, and many more.

[Wayne in Maine]

A Christian who 'feels that heaven is guaranteed just by their faith' and 'will not study the Bible' has a wrong understanding of faith. I agree with Finney that our basis in both becoming a Christian and living a Christian life is faith. Not faith and works but rather a faith that works. True saving faith produces good works. Jews asked Jesus what they needed to do to work the works of God. Jesus replied - "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

I of course hear this "faith that works" quite a lot - even from military chaplains egging their charges on to kill their enemies. Or the immodestly dressed or he greedy who accumulate wealth for themselves.
Among other things Our lord commanded is that when we make disciples of all NATO we teach them to obey all He commanded. Most evangelicals write that off as "legalism" and "works salvation".