Cult Next Door Movie

[ABC 123]

This is Bill Gothard related, but ATI and IBLP seminars have been a huge influence in many Mennonite circles from the 1980s on.

Any thoughts on this?

[appleman2006]

I well remember how taken many Anabaptists were by the whole authority thing that Bill taught. And I see where some of them are with their families today and it makes me wonder how much this thinking affected that.
It does not surprise me that so many of us fell for his stuff. They had enough truth mixed in to be convincing. But it really should be a warning to us. I well remember my Dad having some real serious concerns especially about his authority teaching already back in the early 80's I recognize now how wise Dad was. He did not forbid us from attending his seminars. He just asked that we be careful. I guess he was teaching me to think critically already then.

I see Bill has a trial coming up this month.

[ABC 123]

After his departure from IBLP Bill Gothard started a new thing called Life Purpose Power Teams.

http://www.lifepurposepowerteams.com/fi ... d-success/

Not that it is wrong to pray and recite Scripture, of course, but this gives me the sense of talismans and incantations.

Many people still follow his teaching. This new thing guarantees success.

[MaxPC]

I well remember how taken many Anabaptists were by the whole authority thing that Bill taught. And I see where some of them are with their families today and it makes me wonder how much this thinking affected that.
It does not surprise me that so many of us fell for his stuff. They had enough truth mixed in to be convincing. But it really should be a warning to us. I well remember my Dad having some real serious concerns especially about his authority teaching already back in the early 80's I recognize now how wise Dad was. He did not forbid us from attending his seminars. He just asked that we be careful. I guess he was teaching me to think critically already then.

I see Bill has a trial coming up this month.

I'm not familiar with this group. Appleman can you share more about this "authority teaching"?

[Dan Z]

I didn't watch the video yet...but have had quite a bit of first hand and indirect contact with Gothardianism. I was never a huge fan. In my experience, there were certainly some abuses and imbalances present in the movement, but also much good as well. Ultimately, I'm sad for the the way Bill Gothard abused his power, and for the harm that did to tender hearted young people.

That being said...and not necessarily in defense of Gothard...I am wary of the way the pejorative "cult" get's thrown around sometimes. It is often used by skeptics to (unfairly) label any non-mainstream movement.

Having spent much of my life in and around non-conformed Christianity - I tend to be quite conservative in using the term. Remember, to much of the world, we plain folks are all cult-like in the loose sense of the term. Oh...and I suspect those crazy Jesus-followers in Palestine were accused of being a part of a "cult" (or it's equivalent term in Greek or Aramaic) in their day as well.

[ABC 123]

You make a good point, DanZ.

[KingdomBuilder]

Remember, to much of the world, we plain folks are all cult-like in the loose sense of the term.

True.. Plenty of people in my family (and even my church) have said things that prove this.

[Wade]

I'm not familiar with this group. can you share more about this "authority teaching"?

I watched the video and it had some striking similarities... Dan Z brings really good points...

I am not familiar with anyone from Bill Gothard's teachings. However, we did spend some time listening to his videos and reading some of his books. I always related them to scripture rather than what anyone in ATI or IBLP was doing since I never met any. We did this before I had ever heard that Mennonites existed. Gothard's encouragement to following scriptural principles really gave me a view of being born again and what a holy living might at all look like by what is said in scripture. It completely set us up for when we found Mennonites to realize Mennonites were the people actually living to the way Gothard was pointing. In fact, after the first time we went to a Mennonite church we stopped using Bill Gothard's material until we weren't getting answers and then I have referenced it a few times, including the recent devotional study I was doing.
Anyway, Gothard taught things like accepting how God made a person and from that it helped me understand why it was actually strange and sad when people do wear makeup, have tattoo's, have piercings, etc. However, I never saw these ideas of having extra-biblical standards in his teachings as I never seen him speak out against things like these but rather to the principle and leaving more of the application to be decided with the church and individual. So I was busy relating and comparing to scripture, and finding ways of application; even though, I certainly missed things. So when we came to Mennonite churches and saw extra-biblical standards and teaching we were prepared and comfortable with them from being lead that way by Gothard's teachings, but not actually from his teachings.

I have no desire to defend or put down anyone with stating that from our experience the teaching of Gothard and the impression I received from his view of authority and submission is just a mild form...

What people do with or how they use teaching or scripture doesn't necessarily mean they are regarding those teachings properly. Many evils have been committed in the name of Christ, how much blame should we place on Him and His teachings? Or maybe that sounds too much like taking "responsibility"...?

[JimFoxvog]

After a couple years in grad school in clinical psychology, I lost my faith in psychotherapy. I was looking for a Biblically based alternative. As part of that, I attended the IBYC seminars two times, once in the '70s and once in the '80s. There are some truths in the approach, but it never seemed quite right. The authority issue was a big part of that; there seemed no acknowledgment of the possibility of abusive authority.

[temporal1]

Remember, to much of the world, we plain folks are all cult-like in the loose sense of the term.

True.. Plenty of people in my family (and even my church) have said things that prove this.

i've never come across it, specific to Anabaptists.
i do read a lot of criticism-accusations of all Christians, as if Christians are one organized group.
these are regrettable, but speak to the depth of ignorance of the accusers. unfortunately, "they"/the ignorant of Christianity, are quite dominant+politically organized in the world.
might does not make right.

the word, "cult," has earned suspicion, there have been horrifying abuses, these get the headlines!
it's only with further study that broader understanding is possible. the world will not provide it.

i avoid use of the word as much as humanly possible.
i enjoy learning more about it, but that will not wipe away the reality of the fear generally associated with it in today's vernacular. it is a potentially dangerous word in various ways, including socially, spiritually, and physically.

there have been serious abuses, i don't believe the word can be separated from those incidents, big or small.

in recent history, mainstream religions have been thought of as the "safe places" from cults, but, there have been abuses in all mainstream religions, so, that is not accurate. in recent years, many mainstream churches have embraced beliefs that are questioned, the "safe places" no longer have the trust they once did. empty pews are proof.

it's not unusual for words to have various meanings, sometimes, quite different meanings.
the best clue is to know about the thinking of the person using the word, to understand which definition is likely being used. if that is not known, be careful about jumping to conclusions.

i agree with Dan.
it's not a word to "throw around." people can be seriously+unfairly hurt. it's not worth the risk.