Suing

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
RZehr
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Suing

Post by RZehr »

Why don't you believe in suing people?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Suing

Post by Bootstrap »

1 Corinthians 6 wrote:If any of you has a legal dispute against another, do you dare go to court before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest cases? Don’t you know that we will judge angels—not to mention ordinary matters? So if you have cases pertaining to this life, do you select those who have no standing in the church to judge? I say this to your shame! Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who is able to arbitrate between his brothers? Instead, believer goes to court against believer, and that before unbelievers!

Therefore, to have legal disputes against one another is already a moral failure for you. Why not rather put up with injustice? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, you act unjustly and cheat—and you do this to believers! Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom. And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
This seems to be about lawsuits among believers, it does not say anything directly about lawsuits involving non-believers one way or the other. Paul certainly invoked his Roman citizenship to avoid a beating that might have killed him, so there may be valid reasons for a believer to appeal to law, but that's a harder issue.

Lawsuits among believers is simple. We should never give our brethren a reason to sue us. We should never sue our brethren. If a brother or sister has wronged us badly enough that we need help sorting it out, we should be able to appoint a judge among ourselves to hear it out and arbitrate.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Suing

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Aside from the very specific passages, I think that mercy plays into choosing to not sue.
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Hats Off
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Re: Suing

Post by Hats Off »

So if you have a contractual disagreement between yourself, the non-resistant contractor, and the unbelieving millionaire client and he refuses to pay, do you walk away and say "its up to you, pay me what you think is right" even if it means that your employees will be out of work, your sub trades won't get paid; etc. Or do you use the legal system to attempt to arrive at a reasonable solution? Does it make a difference if the amount in dispute is large or not so large? Does it make a difference on whether the client is extremely wealthy and in known to have accumulated his wealth at least in part of the backs of others?
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Suing

Post by JimFoxvog »

Hats Off wrote:So if you have a contractual disagreement between yourself, the non-resistant contractor, and the unbelieving millionaire client and he refuses to pay, do you walk away and say "its up to you, pay me what you think is right" even if it means that your employees will be out of work, your sub trades won't get paid; etc. Or do you use the legal system to attempt to arrive at a reasonable solution? Does it make a difference if the amount in dispute is large or not so large? Does it make a difference on whether the client is extremely wealthy and in known to have accumulated his wealth at least in part of the backs of others?
I think there is no simple answer here, but it would be a matter of prayerful discernment of a body of believers.
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lesterb
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Re: Suing

Post by lesterb »

RZehr maybe you should tell them your story.
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Josh
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Re: Suing

Post by Josh »

I avoid situations where someone owes me enough money for me to need to sue them.

I couldn't sue because I could not enforce the judgment. How can I ask the sheriff to go use guns and force to remove someone else's property and give it to me?
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Suing

Post by ken_sylvania »

Matthew 5:38-42 wrote: Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Matthew 5:25-26 wrote:Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
I consider suing to be a violation nonresistance and of Jesus' teaching on loving our enemies. Filing liens on properties and selling overdue accounts to collections agencies would, in my opinion, also violate these principles.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Suing

Post by ken_sylvania »

Hats Off wrote:So if you have a contractual disagreement between yourself, the non-resistant contractor, and the unbelieving millionaire client and he refuses to pay, do you walk away and say "its up to you, pay me what you think is right" even if it means that your employees will be out of work, your sub trades won't get paid; etc. Or do you use the legal system to attempt to arrive at a reasonable solution? Does it make a difference if the amount in dispute is large or not so large? Does it make a difference on whether the client is extremely wealthy and in known to have accumulated his wealth at least in part of the backs of others?
Am I being too harsh to say this question seems a little like asking whether it is OK for a christian to shoot to protect his fellow soldiers in a war zone?
It seems prudence would require us to make sure we don't get ourselves into a position where a customer owes an extreme amount like that if we don't have the equity to survive non-payment of the account. If such a situation does occur, I feel the local brotherhood should be on hand to provide assistance.
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Hats Off
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Re: Suing

Post by Hats Off »

Thanks, RZehr for that answer. I am not in that position but when the question about suing comes up, I always wonder where the line is between suing and using legal means to protect our assets/accounts receivable. I have always written off uncollectable amounts - usually when an account becomes truly uncollectable even the law could not enforce collection.
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