What Does "Sin Unto Death" mean? 1 John 5:16,17

[silentreader]

1 John 5:14-17 (ESV)
14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God[a] will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

I think that the attachment of brother to sins that lead not to death is important. Simply, a brother is one who shares in the faith and walk of Christ with us- a fellow Christian.
We do not, however, see the brothers being connected with the sins leading unto death. If ones not a brother, they're not in the faith. Right?

Would it be fair to say, then, that sins that lead unto death are the sins of the unrepentant and the unbelieving? This would make sense to me in light of the passage. We cannot expect our prayers to save such people... Though we may ask and hope for salvation to be brought, we cannot expect it to happen just because we pray on it. Unfortunately.

On the other hand, when a brother sins, he is not leading to death. He may slip and sin, but if he is still a Christian, he is not destined for hell. These are the people that our prayers will be answered for- prayers for encouragement, conviction, reconciliation, forgiveness, and growth.

I believe there are a number of passages that would speak against the notion that certain sins are the only ones that will get you to hell... I think this passage is more about the sinner, not the specific sin.
Any thoughts?

I'm not sure that a plain reading of v16 actually differentiates between a brother's sin and a non-brother's sin. It does differentiate between a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death, but not necessarily between who is doing what. I think that if we lovingly and knowingly harbor sin in our life, with no intention of confession and repentance, sin has the potential to become a sin unto death.
In the example of Ananias and Sapphira, it was said of them that they 'lied to God', and that they 'tested the Holy Spirit'. What they did turned into a sin unto death. I think at any point, confession and repentance would have avoided that.
How great the risk, then, for any one of us, when we continue to grieve the Holy Spirit without remorse, that our sin might become a sin unto death.

[MaxPC]

I believe God answers all prayers: sometimes the answer is no

If you pray for someone to become a Christian and it doesn't happen, is it really because God says no?
Something to think about.

I think on a request like that God will answer but with the reply: "It's the responsibility of the individual to accept my gift of salvation."

If the person doesn't become a Christian, it's because the person said no, not God.

[Bootstrap]

I don't know the answer, and I think silentreader is probably on track. I found the following from the InterVarsity Press New Testament Commentary helpful. I don't know how much of it I agree with ... still chewing on it ...

Sin unto Death, Sin not unto Death (5:16-17)

As a parenthetical aside, John adds the note, There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. This statement implies that there are situations in which one is prohibited from praying, a prohibition that seems difficult to comprehend. But it actually fits well with John's understanding of judgment and with the specific kind of prayer to which he is referring, as we shall see.

First, John draws a distinction in this passage between "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death." This seems, at first glance, to suggest that some sins are more serious than others, that in fact they are so severe that they cannot be forgiven but rather lead one into eternal death. According to 5:16, one may see a fellow Christian commit a sin that does not lead to death. But the passage does not explicitly say that it is a fellow believer committing the sin that does lead to death. Indeed, by definition this seems impossible in the Johannine epistles and particularly in the present context. Sin unto death is sin that carries a person into death's clutches, into the grip of the evil one (v. 19). And a child of God does not sin in that way, because one who is truly born of God will rather manifest that in confession of sin and dependence for forgiveness upon the atoning work of Christ. But "sin unto death" is already evidence that one lives in the realm of death, in the world, under the control of the evil one, and not in the sphere of life and righteousness granted by God to those who trust in Christ's work on their behalf.

The distinction between kinds of sin is not, therefore, a ranking of the seriousness of sins that believers commit. Instead, we have here an implicit distinction between kinds of sinners and sinning. "Sinning not unto death" is, paradoxically, sin in the realm of life, committed by one who has eternal life. Some of the epistle's statements (3:4-10; 5:18) could be taken to mean that sinning is evidence that one does not have life. Yet when sins are dealt with in accordance with God's plan to forgive sins—through the prayer for forgiveness and the "atoning sacrifice" of Jesus Christ (1:9; 2:2)—God hears the prayer of one believer for another and so forgives the repentant sinner. The sinner remains in the realm of life. Yet in no way is John sanctioning cheap grace or a licentious lifestyle, for all wrongdoing is sin. Indeed, this is why the sins of all— even those who believe in the name of the Son of God and have eternal life—must be confessed and forgiven. But where there is no confession, there is "sinning unto death," sin committed in the realm of death, sin that comes from and leads to death for the one who is guilty of it.

But how does one "see" (5:16) another Christian committing a sin? Does this mean that it is a public or visible sin? Is the Elder referring only to kinds of sins that one can witness, such as actions, rather than thoughts? As is typical of the Johannine literature, "seeing" probably means "perceiving" or "understanding." If one has perceived—and John does not explain how one "perceives" this—that a fellow Christian is sinning, the proper response is to pray for that person. Presumably, that person has also repented and asked for forgiveness, for if the person who is sinning and is to be prayed for is indeed a brother or sister, a fellow Christian, then on John's view they would also be characterized by con fession of sin and petition for pardon. Those who do not acknowledge their sins to God are not children of God.

And this gives us a clue why John prohibits prayers for those "whose sin is unto death" (5:16). This prohibition initially seems both hard-hearted and wrong-headed: surely these are precisely the people who most need prayer! The crucial question here is, For what is one forbid den to ask? Verse 16 implies that one asks for life for the brother or sister who sins, just as Jesus asks for the life of Lazarus (Jn 11:41-43) and for forgiveness for the repentant sinner (1 Jn 2:1). Here, one asks for the confessing sinner to be held steadfast in eternal life (compare 5:18; Jn 17:11-15). Such a prayer can be made because this person (a) continues to be a faithful member of the community ("brother" or "sister"), which implies (b) that this person holds the Johannine confession of Christ and (c) acknowledges the sin to God (1:8—2:2). They have life, and prayer is made that they continue to receive life.

What one may not ask for with respect to those whose "sin is unto death" is that they be given life apart from their repentance, confession and returning to following Christ. Prohibition of prayer in the Old Tes tament and Jewish literature roughly contemporaneous with 1 John is a sign of God's judgment on unrepentant sinners (compare Jer 7:16-17; 11:14-15). One can pray that unbelievers may repent and come to fel lowship with God. But if God were to forgive them as they persist in their sin, that would not be forgiveness: it would be denial of human sinful ness which, in the Elder's view, is an abhorrent lie.

This passage then reflects the other side of John's belief that eternal life is received now: if there is life for believers even now, there is also judgment for unbelievers (Jn 3:16-17). And if the community serves as a vehicle for administering God's life to its members, then it also func tions to pronounce judgment. That the Johannine community under stood itself to function in just this way is suggested by the words with which the risen Jesus commissioned his disciples: "As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. . . . If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven" (Jn 20:21, 23). In any case, the primary will of God is to bring people to life (Jn 3:16), and this is the will of God that Jesus lives out. So too, our wills and purposes are to be one with God in this commission, to be agents of bringing God's forgiveness and eternal life to others. Needless to say, this commission can only be carried out with great humility, with the full recognition that the God who extends forgiveness through the church is a God who is "faithful and just and will forgive us our sins" (1 Jn 1:9), and with caution and pastoral discernment in situations that might be covered by the admonitions here.

[KingdomBuilder]

I'm not sure that a plain reading of v16 actually differentiates between a brother's sin and a non-brother's sin. It does differentiate between a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death, but not necessarily between who is doing what. I think that if we lovingly and knowingly harbor sin in our life, with no intention of confession and repentance, sin has the potential to become a sin unto death.
In the example of Ananias and Sapphira, it was said of them that they 'lied to God', and that they 'tested the Holy Spirit'. What they did turned into a sin unto death. I think at any point, confession and repentance would have avoided that.
How great the risk, then, for any one of us, when we continue to grieve the Holy Spirit without remorse, that our sin might become a sin unto death.

I don't think your premise is too different from what I tried to get across. Perhaps I did poorly, though.
You seem to be saying that is is the sinner that determines what sin(s) may lead unto death, not the specific sin itself... No?

Perhaps I did step a bit away from a plain reading. Indeed what I said is hardly original or from a plain reading... It's based on an article sent to me this morning; supplemented with some expansion. But I do believe it's fair to say that those who commit sins leading to death are not brethren, and vice versa.

[silentreader]

I'm not sure that a plain reading of v16 actually differentiates between a brother's sin and a non-brother's sin. It does differentiate between a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death, but not necessarily between who is doing what. I think that if we lovingly and knowingly harbor sin in our life, with no intention of confession and repentance, sin has the potential to become a sin unto death.
In the example of Ananias and Sapphira, it was said of them that they 'lied to God', and that they 'tested the Holy Spirit'. What they did turned into a sin unto death. I think at any point, confession and repentance would have avoided that.
How great the risk, then, for any one of us, when we continue to grieve the Holy Spirit without remorse, that our sin might become a sin unto death.

I don't think your premise is too different from what I tried to get across. Perhaps I did poorly, though.
You seem to be saying that is is the sinner that determines what sin(s) may lead unto death, not the specific sin itself... No?

Perhaps I did step a bit away from a plain reading. Indeed what I said is hardly original or from a plain reading... It's based on an article sent to me this morning; supplemented with some expansion. But I do believe it's fair to say that those who commit sins leading to death are not brethren, and vice versa.

As Max said, we all have the responsibility of choice.
As far as the brother/not a brother thing is concerned, that is possibly a matter of perception. Again, consider Ananias, had he been considered a brother in the church? I think it is reasonable to presume so.
I have opinions, but like Boot, I don't necessarily have answers. Some of those answers are probably on a higher plane than I can attain to.
But no, I think generally speaking, it is not a specific sin, but rather what it does to us spiritually, and what we do with that sin.

[Bootstrap]

My understanding is that the Greek would read something like this, (and Those Who Can Read Greek will have to confirm or deny this), "If any one sees his brother sinning a sin..." from which I infer, and perhaps incorrectly, that the person is involved in present, active sin, which he does neither confess or repent of. John says that when you pray for a person in that condition, do not necessarily expect your prayer to be answered.

I think your conclusion is a good one, but I also think you are perhaps reading too much into the Greek. Here's a hyperliteral translation:

Ἐάν τις ἴδῃ τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτάνοντα ἁμαρτίαν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον, αἰτήσει, καὶ δώσει αὐτῷ ζωήν, τοῖς ἁμαρτάνουσιν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον.
If someone should see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he will pray and he (God) will give life to him, to those sinning not unto death.

ESV is really extremely literal here, ironing out a few Greek language idiosyncrasies that are just odd in a hype literal translation:

ESV: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death.

NLT adds a little interpretation, assuming that the way someone is sinning is the distinction being made:

NLT: If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.

HCSB adds less interpretation, but assumes that a "sin unto death" is a sin that brings death - probably a very reasonable assumption:

HCSB: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that does not bring death, he should ask, and God will give life to him--to those who commit sin that doesn't bring death.

[silentreader]

My understanding is that the Greek would read something like this, (and Those Who Can Read Greek will have to confirm or deny this), "If any one sees his brother sinning a sin..." from which I infer, and perhaps incorrectly, that the person is involved in present, active sin, which he does neither confess or repent of. John says that when you pray for a person in that condition, do not necessarily expect your prayer to be answered.

I think your conclusion is a good one, but I also think you are perhaps reading too much into the Greek.
Does this not prove that I am a conservative Mennonite?



Here's a hyperliteral translation:

Ἐάν τις ἴδῃ τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτάνοντα ἁμαρτίαν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον, αἰτήσει, καὶ δώσει αὐτῷ ζωήν, τοῖς ἁμαρτάνουσιν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον.
If someone should see his brother sinning a sin not until death, he will pray and he (God) will give life to him, to those sinning not unto death.

ESV is really extremely literal here, ironing out a few Greek language idiosyncrasies that are just odd in a hype literal translation:

ESV: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death.

NLT adds a little interpretation, assuming that the way someone is sinning is the distinction being made:

NLT: If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.

HCSB adds less interpretation, but assumes that a "sin unto death" is a sin that brings death - probably a very reasonable assumption:

HCSB: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that does not bring death, he should ask, and God will give life to him--to those who commit sin that doesn't bring death.

[Bootstrap]

I think your conclusion is a good one, but I also think you are perhaps reading too much into the Greek.

Does this not prove that I am a conservative Mennonite?

Cute!

So as a conservative Mennonite, what's the best way to apply this as we live out a life of active discipleship? How would you pray for whom?

[silentreader]

So as a conservative Mennonite, what's the best way to apply this as we live out a life of active discipleship? How would you pray for whom?

Now that's probably the best question that's been asked so far.
I think the big thing here is that we are not forbidden to pray for such cases. I'm not sure that we are actually even discouraged to do so. We have to realize that our perception of a person's spiritual condition is probably limited. We have to remember that we dare not say, "There's no use praying for that person."
But we should be aware that prayers for some people may or may not be answered in what we might consider a positive way.
What is our duty in this? Pray fervently, for we do not know how the Holy Spirit will work, or how God will respond.
Or at least that's my opinion.

[KingdomBuilder]

So as a conservative Mennonite, what's the best way to apply this as we live out a life of active discipleship? How would you pray for whom?

Now that's probably the best question that's been asked so far.
I think the big thing here is that we are not forbidden to pray for such cases. I'm not sure that we are actually even discouraged to do so. We have to realize that our perception of a person's spiritual condition is probably limited. We have to remember that we dare not say, "There's no use praying for that person."
But we should be aware that prayers for some people may or may not be answered in what we might consider a positive way.
What is our duty in this? Pray fervently, for we do not know how the Holy Spirit will work, or how God will respond.
Or at least that's my opinion.

Sounds agreeable to me