What Does "Sin Unto Death" mean? 1 John 5:16,17

[Hats Off]

So as a conservative Mennonite, what's the best way to apply this as we live out a life of active discipleship? How would you pray for whom?

Now that's probably the best question that's been asked so far.
I think the big thing here is that we are not forbidden to pray for such cases. I'm not sure that we are actually even discouraged to do so. We have to realize that our perception of a person's spiritual condition is probably limited. We have to remember that we dare not say, "There's no use praying for that person."
But we should be aware that prayers for some people may or may not be answered in what we might consider a positive way.
What is our duty in this? Pray fervently, for we do not know how the Holy Spirit will work, or how God will respond.
Or at least that's my opinion.

I would agree praying is not forbidden. I would also suggest that it is not for us to attempt to judge who is worthy of or in need of our prayers. We should continue to believe that where there is a little faith and a little obedience, there is hope and where there is hope it is worthwhile praying.

[silentreader]

So as a conservative Mennonite, what's the best way to apply this as we live out a life of active discipleship? How would you pray for whom?

Now that's probably the best question that's been asked so far.
I think the big thing here is that we are not forbidden to pray for such cases. I'm not sure that we are actually even discouraged to do so. We have to realize that our perception of a person's spiritual condition is probably limited. We have to remember that we dare not say, "There's no use praying for that person."
But we should be aware that prayers for some people may or may not be answered in what we might consider a positive way.
What is our duty in this? Pray fervently, for we do not know how the Holy Spirit will work, or how God will respond.
Or at least that's my opinion.

Sounds agreeable to me

What!? Me agreeable?
Seriously though, I'm still not sure I know exactly what John was talking about.

[Bootstrap]

Seriously though, I'm still not sure I know exactly what John was talking about.

Me neither, but I think we do know more or less what we should be doing when we see our brothers and sisters sinning.

[KingdomBuilder]

Seriously though, I'm still not sure I know exactly what John was talking about.

Me neither, but I think we do know more or less what we should be doing when we see our brothers and sisters sinning.

This is one of them more, err, tacky verses of the NT.

[Wade]

What about tying this verse into it:

[bible]James 4, 17[/bible]

What if the brother is really unlearned and has a clear testimony of a conversion but yet is still learning a few things. I really am uncomfortable when people claim ignorance but for some is it possible to not really know some of the right things to do like a much more mature brother might.
For example through history we see many people were kept from ever reading the scripture and even today many in the world never get to...

[MaxPC]

We have to realize that our perception of a person's spiritual condition is probably limited. We have to remember that we dare not say, "There's no use praying for that person."
But we should be aware that prayers for some people may or may not be answered in what we might consider a positive way.
What is our duty in this? Pray fervently, for we do not know how the Holy Spirit will work, or how God will respond.
Or at least that's my opinion.

Amen and amen. When in doubt, I say the Lord's Prayer as Jesus taught us to pray and lift up the person's name. It reminds me of my commitment to "Your Will be done".

[Bootstrap]

Seriously though, I'm still not sure I know exactly what John was talking about.

Me neither, but I think we do know more or less what we should be doing when we see our brothers and sisters sinning.

This is one of them more, err, tacky verses of the NT.

Did you mean 'tricky'? I don't think you mean tacky.

Regardless, I think this illustrates something important. There are verses and passages that are obscure, difficult to nail down completely. But even when we cannot answer every question, I think God always gives us enough information to know how to follow him obediently. The Bible was not written to make us "experts in the law", it was written to make us disciples of Jesus.

[RZehr]

Great thread, RZehr.

My explanation would be from Catholic theology and since this is an Anabaptist thread, I'll keep schtum about that perspective on list. If you're interested in the Catholic read of it, feel free to PM me.

I think we've discussed it for a bit. I'm fine with you sharing in brief, publicly, how the Catholics understand this. I'd be interested.

[RZehr]

Lester, you had mention elsewhere the possibility of this having to do with the unpardonable sin. If you have more to add on that vein of thought, I'd be interested in that also.

[MaxPC]

Great thread, RZehr.

My explanation would be from Catholic theology and since this is an Anabaptist thread, I'll keep schtum about that perspective on list. If you're interested in the Catholic read of it, feel free to PM me.

I think we've discussed it for a bit. I'm fine with you sharing in brief, publicly, how the Catholics understand this.

Thank you, RZehr. I'd be happy to except for one snag: Catholic explanations are never brief in our writings. They tend to be repetitive so that the meanings are clear in multiple languages.

An extremely abbreviated version is that we categorize sins according to the severity of impact on a man's immortal soul.

There are venial (smaller) sins that impede a man's discipleship but don't deal a death blow to his soul's eternal hope of salvation.

Then there are the mortal sins (the really big ones) that place a man's soul in danger of eternal damnation if he does not repent.

Repentance is always key to any of them. As the Bible instructs we never know fully what passes between a man's soul and God.

Hope that helps. Even the abbreviated versions are long winded. Just don't share this with the Vatican because someone, somewhere, in those ancient halls with far too much time on his hands will start nitpicking it to death.