Seekers paths

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
cmbl
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Seekers paths

Post by cmbl »

Josh wrote:I would daresay most conservative Anabaptists are active in evangelism. You can spend about as much free time as you want going to street meetings, cottage meetings, tract distribution, kids' clubs, or mission trips as you want to. And then there are mission-oriented church plants both within the Western world and outside of it you could move to be a part of.

There are a few select groups, like German Baptists (Old Conference) or Old Order Amish who don't do a lot of evangelical-style evangelism, or might do none at all, but that does not represent the majority of conservative Anabaptists.

A greater question is if this all this activity is particularly effective at creating disciples.
A good question, and this ties into something I've been thinking about.
Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can. (I don't actually have first-hand info; most of what I know about such groups comes from reports from outside them from people who left them.) Whereas Conservative Anabaptist groups have adopted revivalism, personal evangelism, etc.

But when I consider how I came to start attending CA churches, it actually looks a lot more like reading about a better way to live and wanting to come join them. Aside from purchasing produce and asking to take photographs from their property, my first interaction with CA's was by reading what they wrote about Christians and politics, the Sermon on the Mount, salvation from sin and conditional security. My first personal interactions were with Josh and ernie on this site to get info on the Beachy church I attend. My first in-person interaction with CA's about religious matters was when I showed up to that church.

Not all CA seekers are the same of course. This seems like a Cory Anderson kind of question: Are there stats on how non-Anabaptist background people find CA's? How many come from, say...
1. Personal interactions with CA's about religious matters before having an interest in Anabaptism
2. Revivalism (singing in public places and handing out tracts)
3. Seeing them "from afar" then reading about them, then coming
4. Other means

And then what does that say about the effectiveness of our evangelistic methods?
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Haystack
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Haystack »

cmbl wrote:Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement as very few outsiders join Old Order groups.
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Hats Off
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Hats Off »

Haystack wrote:
cmbl wrote:Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement as very few outsiders join Old Order groups.
Haystack, just because few join, doesn't mean that this is not the way Old Orders approach "evangelizing." We have had a number of people show up and attend for a while. Since we have no way of dealing with divorce, some people are unable to join for this reason. We had a family leave because he felt he needed life insurance to properly protect his family. Sometimes people expect us to make changes to suit them - but as one woman said "if you were to accommodate us, you would be destroying the very thing that drew us in the first place." We have also experienced people who saw, were attracted, became members and are now raising a family in the Old Order setting. I have a sister-in-law who is in this category. None of them came through street corner evangelizing or anything similar.
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Haystack
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Haystack »

Hats Off wrote:
Haystack wrote:
cmbl wrote:Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement as very few outsiders join Old Order groups.
Haystack, just because few join, doesn't mean that this is not the way Old Orders approach "evangelizing." We have had a number of people show up and attend for a while. Since we have no way of dealing with divorce, some people are unable to join for this reason. We had a family leave because he felt he needed life insurance to properly protect his family. Sometimes people expect us to make changes to suit them - but as one woman said "if you were to accommodate us, you would be destroying the very thing that drew us in the first place." We have also experienced people who saw, were attracted, became members and are now raising a family in the Old Order setting. I have a sister-in-law who is in this category. None of them came through street corner evangelizing or anything similar.
I was more so talking about "If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can". Which group are you apart of Hats Off?
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Josh
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Josh »

Some Old Order groups are reasonable for outsiders to join, some aren't. I imagine a dedicated seeker could join an Ohio Wisler or W-F congregation, and in my area there are a few NAB people who have done just that. I imagine some of the other groups like Weaverlands, Markham-Waterloo M.C., and similar groups would likewise be an option for a seeker, especially if they are willing to learn a new language and overcome that barrier.
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Haystack
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Haystack »

Josh wrote:Some Old Order groups are reasonable for outsiders to join, some aren't. I imagine a dedicated seeker could join an Ohio Wisler or W-F congregation, and in my area there are a few NAB people who have done just that. I imagine some of the other groups like Weaverlands, Markham-Waterloo M.C., and similar groups would likewise be an option for a seeker, especially if they are willing to learn a new language and overcome that barrier.
How many seekers are baptized and remain members in these groups? I imagine it's hard to determine considering most of them wouldn't be on the internet. But I wouldn't think too many. Sure anyone is welcomed to join them in worship, but I'm talking about the people who stay for the long haul and are considered members of the Church.
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Frodo
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Frodo »

Josh wrote:Some Old Order groups are reasonable for outsiders to join, some aren't. I imagine a dedicated seeker could join an Ohio Wisler or W-F congregation, and in my area there are a few NAB people who have done just that. I imagine some of the other groups like Weaverlands, Markham-Waterloo M.C., and similar groups would likewise be an option for a seeker, especially if they are willing to learn a new language and overcome that barrier.
Weaverland and Markham have all English services.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by ken_sylvania »

Haystack wrote:
Josh wrote:Some Old Order groups are reasonable for outsiders to join, some aren't. I imagine a dedicated seeker could join an Ohio Wisler or W-F congregation, and in my area there are a few NAB people who have done just that. I imagine some of the other groups like Weaverlands, Markham-Waterloo M.C., and similar groups would likewise be an option for a seeker, especially if they are willing to learn a new language and overcome that barrier.
How many seekers are baptized and remain members in these groups? I imagine it's hard to determine considering most of them wouldn't be on the internet. But I wouldn't think too many. Sure anyone is welcomed to join them in worship, but I'm talking about the people who stay for the long haul and are considered members of the Church.
How do you determine "many?"

One thing to keep in mind is that it not likely to be immediately obvious which members of an OO group had OO parents and which did not. A successfully integrated seeker will blend in with the rest of the group.

On what basis do you disagree with the statement that "If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can."? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that statement, but I am curious how you came to your conclusion.
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Wade
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Wade »

I believe the context from the OP was talking about evangelism. So here is the quick definition online:

noun: evangelism

- the spreading of the Christian gospel by public preaching or personal witness.
zealous advocacy of a cause.

In my short paraphrasing I would say that the in Unger's Bible Dictionary it says an evangelist proclaims the mercy and grace of God. In Smith's Bible Dictionary it says about the same but also says that a evangelist is not necessarily a leader in the church but someone proclaiming the Gospel.
cmbl wrote:Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can.
So maybe it could be asked, "How is showing people a better way to live evangelism?"

I don't know any OO, nor do I have any opinion on how they live or evangelize but just for thought:

I have met many people that have much better ways to live than poor persecuted suffering Christians...
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Neto
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Re: Seekers paths

Post by Neto »

cmbl wrote:Supposedly Old Orders don't "evangelize". They try to show people a better way to live. If anyone wants to come and join them and submit to the group they can.
Maybe the main way that the Old Order Amish 'evangelize' is by 'evangelistic dating' - I know some guys who became Amish that way, but the ones I know here locally just went from Beachy to Old Order Amish.
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