Dylann Roof

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by temporal1 »

Dan Z wrote:For me, I would hope I could find the strength to forgive enough to also ask the state not to execute the perpetrator.

:arrow: I believe at least some of the Emmanuel AME folks did that - bless them for their witness.

What I'm saying in general is that my silence would be tacit approval, and a betrayal of my Christian convictions.
i expect (underlined is true, and i pray it is true) .. these types of actions do not receive much, if any, air time. but, truly, this is where Hope lives. under the radar. :)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Dan Z
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Appleman...I responded to part of your comment in the Islamic thread.
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Signtist
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Re: Dylann Roof

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I used to know just what I thought of the death penalty, and how I would answer questions regarding it. The last several years have caused me to question my neatly thought out beliefs. Having a sister-in-law murdered will do that to you. The law clearly spells out certain punishment for certain actions. And if we're going to appeal those consequences, where should we stop? If you speed, you pay the fine. If you're involved in drug related crimes, you go to jail. If you kill someone and are convicted, you do life in jail. In Canada, the death penalty isn't an issue. But if the law required that a murderer dies, would I feel OK saying he should not die? I'm not sure at this point. If I believe that, should I also believe that he should go free, able to harm others? Why would I disagree with the law at one point, but not another?
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Signtist wrote:I used to know just what I thought of the death penalty, and how I would answer questions regarding it. The last several years have caused me to question my neatly thought out beliefs. Having a sister-in-law murdered will do that to you. The law clearly spells out certain punishment for certain actions. And if we're going to appeal those consequences, where should we stop? If you speed, you pay the fine. If you're involved in drug related crimes, you go to jail. If you kill someone and are convicted, you do life in jail. In Canada, the death penalty isn't an issue. But if the law required that a murderer dies, would I feel OK saying he should not die? I'm not sure at this point. If I believe that, should I also believe that he should go free, able to harm others? Why would I disagree with the law at one point, but not another?
I respect this position especially from one that has had personal experience as you have had.

I should clarify one thing. Were I living in the US and the death penalty were an option and were I asked for my specific advice in regards to the punishment of a killer of a close friend, I would like to think that I would have the courage to ask for leniency as far as the death penalty was concerned however I also would not stand in the way of it or protest it in any way if the government decided to go ahead as I see that as the government's jurisdiction. Does that make sense?
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Signtist
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Re: Dylann Roof

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appleman2006 wrote:Does that make sense?
I have no problem with your position. The people I take issue with are the ones who don't understand that because a person is forgiven does not mean they should not face consequences for their actions. (There has got to be a better way to say that!)
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Dan Z
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Signtist wrote:But if the law required that a murderer dies, would I feel OK saying he should not die? I'm not sure at this point. If I believe that, should I also believe that he should go free, able to harm others? Why would I disagree with the law at one point, but not another?
I am so sad to hear of how you have personally been affected by a murder Signtist in the loss of your sister-in-law. I can't begin to imagine how this must affect you and your loved ones - I'm sure deeply. I don't want my response below to be seen in any way as disrespectful of the grief you and your family face.

Regarding your question "Why would I disagree with the law at one point but not another?"

My answer would simply be that personal opposition to the execution of a criminal is not based on the idea that killers don't deserve severe punishment, but rather that as non-resistant Christians we believe in the sanctity of life. The state does have choices in what punishment it carries out, and ultimately, I accept that the state will met out the punishment it decides. But for me as a conscientious objector to killing, I would hope that I could, with God's help, go on the record as appealing against execution.

Hope that makes sense.
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temporal1
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Signtist wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:Does that make sense?
I have no problem with your position. The people I take issue with are the ones who don't understand that because a person is forgiven does not mean they should not face consequences for their actions. (There has got to be a better way to say that!)
you said it well.
you also have good reason to question laws which rule one way (example: life in prison) then allow appeals and changes that do put criminals back on the streets (to reoffend.) in the U.S., many complain about the "swinging door," which often correlates with the criminal's ability to pay.

there is another matter in the U.S.
the COST to taxpayers of the death penalty, AND, the length of time/money spent ..
that never results in the act of the death penalty. it surely seems, lots of folks believe the death penalty is the "certain+cheap" way to respond to heinous crime. they are deceived.

for many reasons, "life without parole" seems the better way.
but.

Canada has some justice problems, too:
A man with schizophrenia who beheaded a fellow bus passenger in Canada in 2008 has been granted freedom:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38945061

litigation. the lawyers' gold mine.
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Signtist
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Dan Z wrote:
Signtist wrote:But if the law required that a murderer dies, would I feel OK saying he should not die? I'm not sure at this point. If I believe that, should I also believe that he should go free, able to harm others? Why would I disagree with the law at one point, but not another?
I am so sad to hear of how you have personally been affected by a murder Signtist in the loss of your sister-in-law. I can't begin to imagine how this must affect you and your loved ones - I'm sure deeply. I don't want my response below to be seen in any way as disrespectful of the grief you and your family face.

Regarding your question "Why would I disagree with the law at one point but not another?"

My answer would simply be that personal opposition to the execution of a criminal is not based on the idea that killers don't deserve severe punishment, but rather that as non-resistant Christians we believe in the sanctity of life. The state does have choices in what punishment it carries out, and ultimately, I accept that the state will met out the punishment it decides. But for me as a conscientious objector to killing, I would hope that I could with God's help go on the record as appealing against execution.

Hope that makes sense.
I also respect your position. In our country, the point is quite moot, but I understand why you arrived at your conclusions.
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Signtist
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Re: Dylann Roof

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temporal1 wrote:
Canada has some justice problems, too
We don't have a justice system, I don't think there really is such a thing. We have a legal system. And it is flawed.
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Re: Dylann Roof

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Signtist wrote:We don't have a justice system, I don't think there really is such a thing. We have a legal system. And it is flawed.
I'm not sure how any system can create justice after a murder. Real justice would mean restoring the life of the victim. I don't see how killing someone else brings justice to the victim, it just kills another person. And I don't see how forgiveness combines with wanting to kill someone. I can't think of a purer expression of hate than demanding that the person should not be allowed to live.

I do think we need to keep dangerous people off the streets.
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