Dylann Roof

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
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Dylann Roof

Post by temporal1 »

this thread on justice caused me to wonder about Dylann Roof. :(
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=342

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylann_Roof

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/us/dylann ... explainer/
"Do victims' relatives want the death penalty?
Melvin Graham, whose sister Cynthia Hurd was killed by Roof, supported the jury's decision to recommend the death penalty.
Charleston victims: 9 lives lost
Charleston shooting: Clementa Pinckney among victims

"Today we had justice for my sister," Graham said Tuesday.
"This is a very hollow victory, because my sister is still gone," he said. "I wish that this verdict could have brought her back. But what it can do is just send a message to those who feel the way he feels that this community will not tolerate it."

But in the past, some victims' relatives have vehemently opposed the death penalty for their loved ones' killers.

In one case, the children of Kelly Gissendaner -- a woman convicted of helping kill her husband -- said they had made peace with their mother and begged the state of Georgia to not kill their one remaining parent.
But the children's appeals failed, and Gissendaner was executed in 2015."
this thread is to seek conservative Anabaptist thoughts on Dylann Roof.
others are welcome, a note of faith pov would be appreciated.

i was humbled by the very first news accounts that described survivors in the church immediately reached out in forgiveness to Mr Roof .. (those reports were quickly replaced with "anything-but" forgiveness as reports multiplied, the incident highly politicized.)

i was reminded of the Nickel Mines tragedy, which differed radically in that Amish leadership refused the media circus and politics. the Nickel Mines murderer did not survive. Dylann Roof lives, must be dealt with.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Josh
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Josh »

The conservative Anabaptist point of view would be that Roof needs to accept Christ and allow himself to be transformed, and seek reconciliation with those he has wrong. Doing so might mean accepting the death penalty.
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Dan Z
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Dan Z »

Josh may be right in one sense here, and in line with much of CM thinking on the topic...but looking at it a different way:

I think those folks from Emmanuel AME Church were bearing witness to the teachings and example of Jesus by forgiving Roof, and appealing for his life to be spared. I'd adopt them as honorary Mennonites. :)

I believe the Amish community of Nickle Mines PA showed a similar level of forgiveness...and I would hope that this would be the Conservative Mennonite perspective on the subject. We don't believe in "an eye for and eye" - nor should we believe in a life for a life.
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Bootstrap »

Dan Z wrote:I think those folks from Emmanuel AME Church were bearing witness to the teachings and example of Jesus by forgiving Roof, and appealing for his life to be spared. I'd adopt them as honorary Mennonites. :)

I believe the Amish community of Nickle Mines PA showed a similar level of forgiveness...and I would hope that this would be the Conservative Mennonite perspective on the subject. We don't believe in "an eye for and eye" - nor should we believe in a life for a life.
So you would say that forgiveness implies not wanting him to die?

Have the Emmanuel AME Church members weighed in on whether they want the death penalty?
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temporal1
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:The conservative Anabaptist point of view would be that Roof needs to accept Christ and allow himself to be transformed, and seek reconciliation with those he has wrong.
Doing so might mean accepting the death penalty.
from all i've read, which is not everything, Mr Roof -wants- the death penalty;
i'm sorry to say, not likely any connection with a converted heart .. possibly, had the survivors
been allowed to pursue their initial desire to take him into their hearts, in forgiveness Jesus exemplifies, he might be closer to salvation .. (not to suggest he would not be incarcerated, or facing the death penalty.)
Dan Z wrote:Josh may be right in one sense here, and in line with much of CM thinking on the topic...but looking at it a different way:

I think those folks from Emmanuel AME Church were bearing witness to the teachings and example of Jesus by forgiving Roof, and appealing for his life to be spared. I'd adopt them as honorary Mennonites. :)

I believe the Amish community of Nickle Mines PA showed a similar level of forgiveness...and I would hope that this would be the Conservative Mennonite perspective on the subject. We don't believe in "an eye for and eye" - nor should we believe in a life for a life.
thank you.
at Nickel Mines, their witness touched many, including myself ..
key to their witness was refusing the media circus and politicians.

i suppose this may be the central message (i long for all Christians to embrace) - to turn to Jesus, and refuse the terrible temptress (if not false gods) of the media circus, political factions (which tempts with both money+earthly power.)

unlike Nickel Mines, this church was squarely in the crosshairs of politcal temptation, the pastor had been an elected representative, so, politicians would not let that be. they-all would have had to have full Truth and strong wills to refuse (falling into the primordial soup.)

i pray pastors and laity of every description will be touched by Light and led away from accepting what is common in the world. we can get so close! ..

as for Mr Roof, what a lifeless, empty being he appears to be.
(i believe) most who seek death are seeking relief from pain. and hopelessness.
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by appleman2006 »

For me the death penalty is another one of those things which may very well be a tool the kingdoms of this world may feel they need to use but I as a member of the other kingdom would never condone let alone ask them to use.
I get just as leery of those that would march in the streets against capital punishment as I do those that would protest for it's use. But if my relatives were a murder victim and I was asked if I support the death penalty personally for that person my answer would be negative. Some may see that position as not consistent but I do not.
When it comes to the tools the government uses for defense and/or justice I tend to be very silent. If I felt the need to be active on these issues I would certainly be the first to go to the polls or perhaps even run for office.
I simply do not understand the plain Mennonites that are openly protesting Trump's border positions at this point. Nor do I necessarily understand those that are very vocally supporting them for that matter.
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Dan Z
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Dan Z »

appleman2006 wrote:For me the death penalty is another one of those things which may very well be a tool the kingdoms of this world may feel they need to use but I as a member of the other kingdom would never condone let alone ask them to use.
That's pretty much where I am too appleman. I'll grant that the state may employ the death penalty, just like I grant that the state may go to war...but I will not condone it or participate in it.

Oh...and I'll take it a step further and tell anyone that asks that I am personally against it. I don't believe in an eye for an eye or a life for a life.

Boot - yes, I believe forgiveness means not wanting the perpetrator to be executed.
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Josh »

Forgiveness doesn't mean persuading the state to do one thing or another, in my opinion.

I might forgive someone who defrauds me of a lot of money, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't truthfully and honestly answer questions the state would have if they prosecuted such a person.
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Dan Z
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Dan Z »

Josh wrote:Forgiveness doesn't mean persuading the state to do one thing or another, in my opinion.

I might forgive someone who defrauds me of a lot of money, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't truthfully and honestly answer questions the state would have if they prosecuted such a person.
For me, I would hope I could find the strength to forgive enough to also ask the state not to execute the perpetrator. I believe at least some of the Emmanuel AME folks did that - bless them for their witness.

What I'm saying in general is that my silence would be tacit approval, and a betrayal of my Christian convictions.
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Re: Dylann Roof

Post by Bootstrap »

Have you read about the "Declaration of Life"?
I request that the person found guilty of homicide for my killing not be subject to or put in jeopardy of the death penalty under any circumstances, no matter how heinous their crime or how much I may have suffered.
A number of people have signed documents like that and stored them with their wills, but until recently, none of them had been murdered. Rene Roberts is the first.

Would you sign something like that? Why or why not?
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