Pouring for baptism

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Soloist
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Pouring for baptism

Post by Soloist »

I have heard that some/most conservative Mennonites believe the proper method is pouring. I personally would believe that immersion is the proper method but I'm interested in hearing the argument for pouring and the reasonings behind it.

I have no objection to someone who is baptized either way and would recognize it as valid.

I would request that only members of churches who conduct pouring as a standard respond and that no debating takes place. Questions are fine.
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Josh
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Josh »

Pouring is a custom that will arise if Christians need to hold worship services in secret, and don't have access to modern technology and amenities like running water, bathtubs, swimming pools, and so on. The practice thus arose amongst the early Anabaptists.

The most conservative Mennonites resist change, and are particularly not interested in hearing how sacraments must be done some new, "better" way.
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Ernie
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Ernie »

I'm not currently part of such a church but grew up in one. If you want me to share their reasons, I can do that.
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Martin
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Martin »

As a Mennonite, I received pouring. In the NT some new believers went to the water and in other instances the water was brought to those requesting baptism like in Acts 16. So I am not sure if the eunuch was immersed or not. Also, pouring is practiced by the majority of Anabaptist groups - Hutterites, Mennonites, and Amish. I believe I am conservative as well, if by conservative you mean "slow to change" and dress plainly. Does this answer your question?
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Joy
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Joy »

Martin, I don't understand your reference to water being brought for baptism in Acts 16. Could you explain?
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EdselB
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by EdselB »

Soloist wrote:I have heard that some/most conservative Mennonites believe the proper method is pouring....I'm interested in hearing the argument for pouring and the reasonings behind it.
Pouring is the standard mode used in my congregation, but we have used immersion on two occasions when it was requested.

Daniel Kauffman, Manual of Bible Doctrines (1898), 114-119, outlines the Mennonite (he would have said Biblical) rationales for pouring.
FORMS OF BAPTISMS.

The three modes most commonly used in the administration of water baptism are sprinkling, pouring, and immersion.

By counting the cleansing processes connected with the sacrificial offerings of the Old Testament as evidences in determining the mode of water baptism, there are many scriptural reasons favoring sprinkling as a Bible mode of baptism.

Pouring has the especial distinction of being the only mode mentioned in the New Testament that is called baptism....

MEANING OF THE WORD BAPTISM.

Did you ever find the definition that God gives of baptism? Some think because of the expression, "there was much water there" (Jno. 3:23) it must mean immersion. The Greek says "many waters" which also means much or plenty of water. The great multitudes needed these springs of Ænon for man and beast. It does not take a great quantity of water to baptize by any mode that men use. The Bible is silent as to the quantity of water. At places where people became fit subjects for baptism it was administered. But how was it done? What does baptism mean? ....

In many places the Scriptures teach that the Lord Jesus baptizes with the Holy Ghost. Jesus says, "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 1:5). Acts 2:17; 10:45 shows that Jesus performed His baptism as He and Joel and John the Baptist had prophesied. By what mode did Jesus apply the divine essence to fit subjects for His baptism? The Holy Ghost "fell" or "was poured" upon them. What John and the apostles did with water Jesus did with the Holy Ghost—they baptized. The word baptize comes from the Greek word baptizo. Some say that all the learned men agree that baptizo means immerse, and immerse only. In connection with the baptism of the believer we fail to find any such meaning of baptizo. Jesus is better authority than all the learned men and He does not even include immersion in His baptizo, the definition of which He really acts out for us. "Ye shall be baptized;" the Spirit was poured upon them. To baptize with the Holy Spirit and to pour out the Holy Spirit are one and the same thing. - ''Things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other." Then baptizo or baptize means to pour upon. The world itself can not give a better definition than God gives. If Jesus used the pouring mode why should men invent other modes? According to the inspired witnesses the very word baptize carries the idea of pouring with it. Therefore we take God's definition and Jesus' pattern and baptize with water by pouring it upon the applicant....

We favor pouring as the Bible mode of baptism, because—

1. It is typical of the Spirit baptism (Matthew 8:11; Acts 1:5) which baptism, whenever spoken of, consisted of an outpouring. (Acts 2:14-21; 10: 44-48; 11:15, 16).

2. It is the only mode mentioned in the Bible that is called a baptism. The miraculous outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost is called a baptism by John the Baptist (Matt. 3:11), by Christ (Acts 1:5), and by Peter (Acts 11:15, 16). Here are three competent witnesses whose authority no one disputes. What better evidence do we want? Can it be shown any place that immersion is called baptism? Is there a distinct case to be found in the Bible where a putting under the water was called a baptism? The Bible records one instance that was an immersion beyond a doubt. It was when the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea. It is worthy of note, however, that this event is nowhere called a baptism. It was Israel that was baptized unto Moses. (1 Cor. 10:2).

3. It is the only mode that harmonizes with the language found in 1 Jno. 5:8. The language is as follows: “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. “Let us see how they agree. The Spirit whenever administered was an outpouring. The blood, as it flowed from the wounded side of Jesus, was an outpouring. If “these three agree in one"—the spirit, the water, and the blood—it follows that the administration of the water must also be an outpouring.

4. Pouring is a mode of baptism that can be universally practiced. This is not true of immersion. Baptism is by command of Christ universally obligatory; but cases often occur when it is hazardous if not impossible to administer this rite by immersion. It can in no case be administered safely to the sick and the dying…. Baptism by pouring may be administered at any place, at home or abroad,—in the deserts and frozen climes; in any condition, whether in sickness or in health; in any apparel, whether usual or unusual; in any season, cold or hot, wet or dry; in any hour, day or night.

5. The Bible figure of baptism points to pouring as the mode. The figure is found in 1 Peter 3:2l, where the apostle refers to the ark as a figure of baptism. Let us notice this figure. The ark was first standing on dry ground, afterwards partly submerged in water. In either position, the windows of heaven were opened and water was pouring down upon the ark. No figure could be plainer. Like the ark, the applicant for baptism may stand either on dry ground or in the water. In either position, the outpouring of water upon the ark typifies the outpouring of water upon the applicants head….
If you want to read the whole of Kauffman's discussion about baptism, it can be found at:

https://ia802604.us.archive.org/29/item ... 00kauf.pdf
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Soloist
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Soloist »

I'm not currently part of such a church but grew up in one. If you want me to share their reasons, I can do that
Feel free Ernie if you have anything to add to the description Edsel posted.
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Ernie
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Re: Pouring for baptism

Post by Ernie »

Soloist wrote:
I'm not currently part of such a church but grew up in one. If you want me to share their reasons, I can do that
Feel free Ernie if you have anything to add to the description Edsel posted.
Wow. Some of those in Bible Doctrines are new to me.

Another one I heard had to do with emotionalism. Staid Mennonites tended to look down on groups who were looking for "an experience". They saw baptism simply as the "testimony of a good conscience" and could not appreciate an outdoor service or any symbolism of one's sins being washed away.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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