When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Josh
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When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Josh »

If you want to discuss how I, who have been a member of Mennonite churches most of my life and still consider myself a Mennonite, handle membership in a congregation that is part of a denomination I'm uncomfortable with, that's a better conversation for the other thread. I'd like to keep this one about refugees.
Let's talk about this. Many Mennonites and other Anabaptists find themselves needing to seek fellowship in a different church, particularly if their home church or conference goes what they feel is a bad direction.

If you've never been Anabaptist or Mennonite, don't go to an Anabaptist or Mennonite church, and are not interested in seeking to be Anabaptist/Mennonite or seek such a church, please consider how helpful your participation in this thread will be.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by JimFoxvog »

I've officially been a Mennonite for about 16 years. When I read the "Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective" it sounded like I've been a Mennonite in spirit for much longer. I can certainly understand and affirm your saying you are Mennonite or Anabaptist in belief. The one tension I have is the sense that it is very important to be part of a body of like-minded believers. (This isn't personal; I don't know your situation.)

Our family has moved from one part of the country to another a couple times to be part of a church community. We may never be part of a group that is entirely like-minded; this is where submission to one another and valuing differences comes in. If we feel led to be part of a non-Mennonite church, I think I would describe myself as Anabaptist in belief, rather than "Mennonite." But some have a long cultural association with the Mennonite church that I can't claim, so I understand how others would make a different choice.
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Bootstrap
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Bootstrap »

I first bumped into Mennonites in the late 1970s, started to identify as Mennonite while attending a non-Mennonite church, and first joined a Mennonite church in 1983. I couldn't find a good Mennonite church in Berlin, so I worshipped with the Evangelical Free Church instead when I lived there. Back in the States, I was in a Mennonite church until my first wife divorced me. It's hard to be in the same church of 40 adults with your former wife, but I stayed until I started dating my second wife. That was too uncomfortable for her and for us. The other local Mennonite church is very political and liberal, it just wasn't a good fit for me, so my wife and I found a church that works for both of us.

It's a much larger church than I'm used to, with about 600 members and a larger attendance. It's Presbyterian, though only 10% of the members come from that background. When I was in membership classes, I told the pastor that I'm a zero point Calvinist (disagreeing with all five points of Calvinism) and that I'm also a non-creedal Christian. He said that wasn't a problem. I said that I don't identify with the Presbyterian church or its theology. He said that wasn't a problem. He's not Mennonite, but he does respect my theology and my general orientation, and I respect his. There's no flag in the church, they don't preach politics from the pulpit, the focus is very much on the Kingdom of God. Since joining this church, PC-USA has embraced gay marriage, our congregation opposes it on biblical grounds, and we're still finding our way. I am very uncomfortable with the Presbyterian governance model in general, so I largely avoid anything beyond the congregational level. I like the congregation.

It's a very educated and wealthy church, next to Duke campus, and that's unusual for me too. We have a lot of divinity students training to be pastors. There must be at least 20 people who read Greek, there are 8 in my Greek Sunday School class. I'm used to being in churches where many people do not have college degrees. I once bought a book that someone recommended on MennoDiscuss, then realized that the author goes to my church. Our budget is much higher than most small Mennonite churches, that lets us fund a lot of missions programs, a college in the Congo, etc. I know at least 10 people who are involved in full time ministry of one kind or another. For me, it was critical to get involved in a ministry helping people, and the refugee work is really helping build meaningful fellowship.

I eat lunch once a week with the men from the Mennonite church, and my daughters go there when they are in town. I miss the smaller church, and I value the friendships. There are no conservative Mennonite churches where I live, and the local Mennonite churches are struggling mightily with the gay marriage issue - the one I came from follows biblical teaching, the other two local Mennonite churches have embraced gay marriage and are now moving to another conference that allows it.
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Bootstrap
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Bootstrap »

JimFoxvog wrote:When I read the "Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective" it sounded like I've been a Mennonite in spirit for much longer.
Exactly. That confession gets so many things right. There's no statement closer to what I believe.
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RZehr
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by RZehr »

It would be tough for me to go be a member of a Presbyterian church and call myself a Mennonite. But I do understand that some people would. But do you also deny being a Presbyterian? Or do you think of yourself as both?
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Bootstrap
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Bootstrap »

RZehr wrote:It would be tough for me to go be a member of a Presbyterian church and call myself a Mennonite. But I do understand that some people would. But do you also deny being a Presbyterian? Or do you think of yourself as both?
I really don't think of myself as Presbyterian at all, and never call myself one. When people visited from the Bruderhof, my pastor introduced me to them as a Mennonite. When different understandings come up, I often explain that I'm used to thinking of things from a Mennonite perspective.

This is also not a particularly Presbyterian congregation. Our sister church calls itself a Bible Church, and is not affiliated with a denomination. Only 10% of the members come from a Presbyterian background. For example, when we have an infant baptism (ouch!), the pastor sometimes says something about the range of beliefs people in the church have. That kind of thing is really uncomfortable for me, but the church also has real strengths.

One area of commonality is the realization that we should look first to what Jesus said and did. This congregation is strong on that perspective.
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RZehr
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by RZehr »

Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:It would be tough for me to go be a member of a Presbyterian church and call myself a Mennonite. But I do understand that some people would. But do you also deny being a Presbyterian? Or do you think of yourself as both?
I really don't think of myself as Presbyterian at all, and never call myself one. When people visited from the Bruderhof, my pastor introduced me to them as a Mennonite. When different understandings come up, I often explain that I'm used to thinking of things from a Mennonite perspective.

This is also not a particularly Presbyterian congregation. Our sister church calls itself a Bible Church, and is not affiliated with a denomination. Only 10% of the members come from a Presbyterian background. For example, when we have an infant baptism (ouch!), the pastor sometimes says something about the range of beliefs people in the church have. That kind of thing is really uncomfortable for me, but the church also has real strengths.

One area of commonality is the realization that we should look first to what Jesus said and did. This congregation is strong on that perspective.
I understand what you're saying, but it still seems odd to me not to own (at least on some level) the Presbyterian name. Is anyone there a Presbyterian? If the members of a Presbyterian church aren't Presbyterian, then is it a ghost denomination?
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Bootstrap
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Bootstrap »

RZehr wrote:I understand what you're saying, but it still seems odd to me not to own (at least on some level) the Presbyterian name. Is anyone there a Presbyterian? If the members of a Presbyterian church aren't Presbyterian, then is it a ghost denomination?
The leadership of the church definitely identifies as Presbyterian, and it is part of a Presbytery. The church sign says Presbyterian.

I'm really uncomfortable with PC-USA and with some aspects of Presbyterian theology. I also don't think that the denomination or the details of philosophy are as important as the way we live out our lives in the local congregation. But I still feel some discomfort about this. And that makes it hard to feel completely at home here.

I need to be part of a local church. The local Mennonite church doesn't really work, for reasons I explained. I'm not really Baptist or Methodist either.
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Neto
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by Neto »

I attended college in an area where there were no Mennonite congregations. Until I got a car, I attended a Baptist congregation, I think it was called American Baptist Conference, Swedish Baptists by origin. It was there that I was asked how it was that being a Mormon, I came to a Bible college run by the Christian & Missionary Alliance. (They both start with 'M', I guess....) After I got a car, I started attending a small country congregation in the Evangelical Free. In Brazil, where there were also no Mennonites in our area, during language school (Fortelaza, CE) we attended a Regular Baptist congregation. (We kept a pretty low profile there in terms of expressing differences in belief, but we were only beginning to speak Portuguese anyway. Later we started attending a Wesleyan congregation with another missionary couple. Then we lived in Brasilia (the Federal capitol) for 5 months, and attended with a Presbyterian congregation that met in our mission center conference room. For the remaining 17 years in Brazil (Porto Velho, RO) we mostly attended with a small Pentecostal congregation made up of poor people who lived along the river (only one family owned a vehicle). Now I am a member of a Swiss Brethren congregation that started as a splinter off of a Beachy Amish Mennonite congregation, but where most of our members come from the Amish, predominantly Old Order.
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Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
KingdomBuilder
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Re: When you're Mennonite and your church isn't

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Bootstrap wrote:
JimFoxvog wrote:When I read the "Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective" it sounded like I've been a Mennonite in spirit for much longer.
Exactly. That confession gets so many things right. There's no statement closer to what I believe.
I share a similar experience.

I currently attend a DoC church and, like boot, it's a decision based on the local congregation. I do not identify with or claim the denomination as a whole. It's also a bit out of necessity as I'm too far from any anabaptist congregation.

Surprisingly as it sounds, it's still progress. Left the southern Baptist mega-church (relatively) that I was raised in almost 2 years ago.
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