Excommunication - What it is and is not

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective

Mark all the statements you agree with.

1. Excommunication is from the universal body of Christ.
1
2%
2. Excommunication is from both the universal body of Christ and the local church.
4
6%
3. Excommunication is from the local church, not necessarily from the universal body of Christ.
10
16%
4. Excommunication and local membership is not important.
1
2%
5. Excommunication and local membership is important.
14
22%
6. Excommunication should be only for specific sins that the bible clearly teaches against, and not for extra biblical local church standards associated with membership in the local church.
10
16%
7. There are times and circumstances that it is right for the local church to excommunicate for noncompliance with extra biblical local church standards.
8
13%
8. I am a member or interested in working toward membership of a Anabaptist church.
14
22%
9. I am not a member, nor interested working toward membership of an Anabaptist church, and never have been.
0
No votes
10. I used to be a member of an Anabaptist church but not now.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 64

RZehr
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby RZehr » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:09 pm

Ernie wrote:I think there are a lot of levels of discipline that the NT refers to.
Here are some...

1. rebuking sharply
2. not socializing with
3. dis-fellowshipping
4. excommunication


Also, the OP mentioned church standards but not church doctrine. I know a man about may age who was excommunicated a few years ago from a plain church and it was called a doctrinal excommunication. His character was good. He was a gifted scholar and speaker. But he had some very unorthodox basic beliefs about God and the Bible (somewhat universalist) and because he was so influential, the church felt they needed to call it out as false teaching. I think the church did the right thing.


This is a good addition. I'd be interested in seeing this list explained more by someone. Some of these seem to have overlap, and so I'm curious what the differences are thought to be.
1 x

Hats Off
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Hats Off » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:12 pm

I would have thought that the last three are very similar. Dis-fellow-shipping and not socializing with would seem to be brought on by excommunication. We seem to have another status; that of a non-communing member. On a long term basis I would pretty much consider the terms mutually exclusive.
0 x

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Chris
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Chris » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm curious if it is only to be used for "sin".

Technically "ex-communication" is actually to be put "out of communion".

I'm curious what you people think about guests who are preaching heresy? Isn't there a point when enough is enough?
0 x

Wade
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Affiliation: Independent Baptist

Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Wade » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:31 pm

Chris wrote:I'm curious if it is only to be used for "sin".

Technically "ex-communication" is actually to be put "out of communion".

I'm curious what you people think about guests who are preaching heresy? Isn't there a point when enough is enough?


Is not heresy sin?

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
0 x
"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

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Chris
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Chris » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Wade wrote:
Chris wrote:I'm curious if it is only to be used for "sin".

Technically "ex-communication" is actually to be put "out of communion".

I'm curious what you people think about guests who are preaching heresy? Isn't there a point when enough is enough?


Is not heresy sin?

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.




Yes, it is a sin, but usually not one that is addressed easily because it can be "backed" from a "bible viewpoint". It's much more complicated than "sin-sin". It sews seeds of briers and thorns in the bride. Dangerous stuff.
0 x

Josh
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Josh » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:05 pm

Cast out a divisive man after 1 or 2 warnings.

("Heresies" in KJV means divisions, not false doctrine. False teachers are addressed elsewhere.)
0 x

Wade
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Affiliation: Independent Baptist

Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Wade » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:41 pm

Josh wrote:Cast out a divisive man after 1 or 2 warnings.

("Heresies" in KJV means divisions, not false doctrine. False teachers are addressed elsewhere.)


Maybe your thinking of 1 Timothy 4?
0 x
"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

Josh
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby Josh » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:16 am

Wade wrote:
Josh wrote:Cast out a divisive man after 1 or 2 warnings.

("Heresies" in KJV means divisions, not false doctrine. False teachers are addressed elsewhere.)


Maybe your thinking of 1 Timothy 4?


Yes. But when KJV talks about "heresies", it's not talking about false teaching.

Yet another reason to avoid KJV for study.
0 x

RZehr
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby RZehr » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:51 pm

Hats Off wrote:I would have thought that the last three are very similar. Dis-fellow-shipping and not socializing with would seem to be brought on by excommunication. We seem to have another status; that of a non-communing member. On a long term basis I would pretty much consider the terms mutually exclusive.


What does ex-communication mean other than non-communing? I know how we use it. I'm proposing that we redefine/downgrade the term "excommunication" to mean "non-communing".

I don't have a term to propose in place of "cutting off from the body of Christ".

My thinking is that there are sins unto death, and there are sins not unto death. So, for example, if someone secretly breaks a church rule, that would be considered a sin (falling short of the mark) not unto death. This may result in "excommunication", which would not mean "marking him" or cutting him off from the body, but rather it would simply mean that he is a non-communing member.

If a person commits adultery, or murder, etc., that would be a sin unto death. A new term would be needed for this scenario.

Am I making sense?
0 x

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lesterb
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Re: Excommunication - What it is and is not

Postby lesterb » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:01 pm

RZehr wrote:
Hats Off wrote:I would have thought that the last three are very similar. Dis-fellow-shipping and not socializing with would seem to be brought on by excommunication. We seem to have another status; that of a non-communing member. On a long term basis I would pretty much consider the terms mutually exclusive.


What does ex-communication mean other than non-communing? I know how we use it. I'm proposing that we redefine/downgrade the term "excommunication" to mean "non-communing".

I don't have a term to propose in place of "cutting off from the body of Christ".

My thinking is that there are sins unto death, and there are sins not unto death. So, for example, if someone secretly breaks a church rule, that would be considered a sin (falling short of the mark) not unto death. This may result in "excommunication", which would not mean "marking him" or cutting him off from the body, but rather it would simply mean that he is a non-communing member.

If a person commits adultery, or murder, etc., that would be a sin unto death. A new term would be needed for this scenario.

Am I making sense?

I think so. However, I would have looked at a sin unto death as being an unpardonable sin. The apostle goes on to say that we don't need to pray for the person who has committed a sin unto death. That doesn't really fit the examples that you gave. Or am I misunderstanding something?
0 x
When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. (Pro 16:7 ESV)


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