Addressing militancy, anger, & radicalization in our midst

[ABC 123]

Do you think militancy, anger, radicalization, and contempt are the right way to do that?

Boot, is anyone here (outside of a few cranks, maybe) calling for that?

With that said, having beliefs against, for example, homosexuality or abortion is considered "militant" and "radical" by much of the left-wing. So if you absorb a lot of left-wing talking points and belief systems, some people like myself get stuck being labelled militant and radical.

Agreeing with Josh here.

And the other person quoting me (nothing personal, I am not keeping score on who's who in this discussion), that is the very response I was interested in. How much questioning is one allowed before they are labeled militant, angry, radical, etc?

[Bootstrap]

Do you think militancy, anger, radicalization, and contempt are the right way to do that?

Boot, is anyone here (outside of a few cranks, maybe) calling for that?

With that said, having beliefs against, for example, homosexuality or abortion is considered "militant" and "radical" by much of the left-wing. So if you absorb a lot of left-wing talking points and belief systems, some people like myself get stuck being labelled militant and radical.

I suspect I am just as against homosexuality and abortion as you are. I tend to get labelled as old-fashioned or really pious or out of touch, not as militant and radical. Over time - usually a long time - some people strongly disagree with me on these things have come to acknowledge that I am treating them with love. So far, that hasn't changed their minds. I'm not convinced that contempt would change their minds either.

Some on the right label me as "soft" on these things. To me, it sometimes feels like they say that precisely because I am not militant, radical, or contemptuous when I talk to people about these sins. I sometimes wonder if that's what Jesus was facing when the Pharisees accused him of hanging out with sinners and tax collectors, called him a glutton and a drunkard, etc.

I don't think we can compromise on either righteousness or love. I don't think there is room for contempt in our righteousness. I don't pretend that I always get this right in practice, but I try to live this way.

[Bootstrap]

How much questioning is one allowed before they are labeled militant, angry, radical, etc?

Questioning and disagreeing are not the same thing as being militant, angry, radical, etc. Not even remotely. Neither is righteousness. I suspect everyone in this thread agrees that radical discipleship to Jesus and obedience to the Bible are central to our faith.

Of course, people can label us unfairly, that happens all the time. But I think it's important to monitor ourselves and our attitudes. There clearly ARE Christians who are militant, angry, contemptuous. And for some of them, their contempt lines up conveniently along partisan political lines, not according to the righteousness of the person they are talking about.

That contempt is not a good witness. When I talk to people about what they dislike about Christians, that's the kind of thing they point to.

[Josh]

I suspect I am just as against homosexuality and abortion as you are. I tend to get labelled as old-fashioned or really pious or out of touch, not as militant and radical. Over time - usually a long time - some people strongly disagree with me on these things have come to acknowledge that I am treating them with love. So far, that hasn't changed their minds. I'm not convinced that contempt would change their minds either.

For what it's worth, I don't view you as soft on those things and appreciate your stance on them, even if it's not a loud, militant stance.

But the unfortunate reality is that there's very little space to have much of a discussion with people who use those things (particularly gay marriage and acceptance of transsexual lifestyles) as litmus tests of if someone is bigoted / radical / militant / violent. And that's simply the space that most of the left wing occupies now.

I don't think we can compromise on either righteousness or love. I don't think there is room for contempt in our righteousness. I don't pretend that I always get this right in practice, but I try to live this way.

I don't think so, either, which is why I think we're best off focusing on what we should be doing. Instead of speaking against militancy and anger, focus on "you must love your enemies" and "do good to those who persecute you". There is really no way a sincere Christian can argue against those things from scripture.

It does require recognising that much of the world simply is set up as our enemies (both on left wing and right wing) and that we have to find some way to love and do good back.

[Dan Z]

Unsurprisingly, I'm seeing a rapid increase in conspiracy theories, political militancy, and social radicalization - including among those in our Anabaptist circles (even some influencers).

I am curious what you mean in particular by political militancy and social radicalization happening in Anabaptist circles. Could you provide some examples or more specific definitions?

Hi Mike - I meant to answer this...sorry it has taken me two weeks to do so.

Let me define what I mean:

• 1) Conspiracy theories - a) theories that reject the standard explanation for events, and instead credit covert groups or organizations with carrying out secret plots: b) the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of deceptive plots that are largely unknown to the general public.
  
  2) Political Militancy - Identification with increasingly combative political groups and ideologies, resulting in dramatic, aggressive, accusatory, dehumanizing, or demonizing rhetoric, and sometimes actions, against those deemed to be the opposition, or a threat to ones political in-group, ideology, or way of life.
  
  3) Social Radicalization - the tenancy to be drawn into social relationships and activities that are jointly reactionary, isolationist, self-serving, anti-establishment, protest-driven, or even violent.

While each of these issues can stand alone, in this case I see them as all linked. And my concern is not so much that these things exist in the world - they have always been a part of human nature - but my great burden is how, over time, these things are making alarming and unprecedented inroads into our family of faith (Conservative Anabaptism), and undercutting our witness and commitment to the Kingdom of Christ in the process.

I think there is one primary reason for this...and one primary solution...more on that later.

[Josh]

(1) is particularly interesting, since conspiracy theories are actually widely known to the public and there isn't even that much ostracism for believing in them. (For example, I think Epstein didn't kill himself, and so do lots of other people. Holding on to this belief is far more acceptable than, say, believing in black helicopters hovering over your house in the 1990s was.)

Never before has so much been so visible and has it been so hard to cover up and hide misdeeds, yet the appetite of sinful man to believe in conspiracy theories has grown larger than ever.

Things get really bizarre when you find out what's going on in other countries, mediated by social media. WhatsApp in particularly has become a progenitor of large amount of novel conspiracy theories and "fake news", especially in the third world; Facebook as a company is wrestling with what to even do about this, since the platform is purportedly private. But Facebook has ended up accidentally playing a large role in promoting vaccine denialism, particularly in the third world, where it will cost many lives. Once these conspiracy theories take root, they are almost impossible to get rid of.

I have difficulty with seeing (3) as a problem, simply because:

"social relationships and activities ... that are ... reactionary ... anti-establishment"

This succinctly defines both Christianity in the first century and Anabaptism since its founding in the 1500s. It is defined by social relationships that are reactionary, calling for a return to primitive Christianity, and anti-establishment, calling for a near-total rejection of modern society and its trappings.

[barnhart]

Dan, I see I misunderstood the direction of your thread. I was thinking about anger and militancy any where we come into contact with it, not primarily in church. The two are not the same and likely deserve different action.

...I think there is one primary reason for this...and one primary solution...more on that later.

I'm waiting for more.

[Jazman]

Unsurprisingly, I'm seeing a rapid increase in conspiracy theories, political militancy, and social radicalization - including among those in our Anabaptist circles (even some influencers).

I am curious what you mean in particular by political militancy and social radicalization happening in Anabaptist circles. Could you provide some examples or more specific definitions?

Hi Mike - I meant to answer this...sorry it has taken me two weeks to do so.

Let me define what I mean:

• 1) Conspiracy theories - a) theories that reject the standard explanation for events, and instead credit covert groups or organizations with carrying out secret plots: b) the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of deceptive plots that are largely unknown to the general public.
  
  2) Political Militancy - Identification with increasingly combative political groups and ideologies, resulting in dramatic, aggressive, accusatory, dehumanizing, or demonizing rhetoric, and sometimes actions, against those deemed to be the opposition, or a threat to ones political in-group, ideology, or way of life.
  
  3) Social Radicalization - the tenancy to be drawn into social relationships and activities that are jointly reactionary, isolationist, self-serving, anti-establishment, protest-driven, or even violent.

While each of these issues can stand alone, in this case I see them as all linked. And my concern is not so much that these things exist in the world - they have always been a part of human nature - but my great burden is how, over time, these things are making alarming and unprecedented inroads into our family of faith (Conservative Anabaptism), and undercutting our witness and commitment to the Kingdom of Christ in the process.

I think there is one primary reason for this...and one primary solution...more on that later.

Dan, thanks for the details. Could you maybe give some examples with some details of each of these...(no names/geographic locations)? I'm not in conservative circles/settings very often, so I'm struggling to picture how these might actually manifest? (Not doubting your points - I think because of some hints I've seen that you're probably right: but I don't have specific data points).
One more thing; could a feeling of victimization be added as a #4 or would that be a motivating factor for all the others? I guess if there's anything I would point to as being more prevalent, would be this victim narrative that pops up in many conversations/Sunday School classes, etc.

[MaxPC]

I have difficulty with seeing (3) as a problem, simply because:

"social relationships and activities ... that are ... reactionary ... anti-establishment"

This succinctly defines both Christianity in the first century and Anabaptism since its founding in the 1500s. It is defined by social relationships that are reactionary, calling for a return to primitive Christianity, and anti-establishment, calling for a near-total rejection of modern society and its trappings.

I agree with this.

Perhaps it would help to say:
"social relationships based on politics and secular values and activities ... that are ... reactionary ... anti-establishment”

[francis]

I have seen a lot more conspiracies floating around. Stuff like Mennonites advising one another to never take a Covid vaccine when it comes out because it's apparently the government planting chips in people...Fear drives us to lose our reasoning and I worry about people in my community.