Charity Ministries and assorted other topics

[Valerie]

For one thing. I apologize if I am coming across as "casting stones". That's a serious charge Biblically speaking, implying I'm seeing something " worthy of death," which I'm not at all. It was Anabaptists born I heard saying they believed there was a curse of splitting on the Anabaptists. As far as Amish go. There have been many many splits. Many orders are named after the splits (I.r. Swartzentruber. Weaver, Beachy, eyc Or Old Order, New Order. New New Order, & now New New Order. These kinds of things I believe had something to do with how Charity started. We met a man at Haiti Benefit Auction at meal time. He I thought was old order Amish. No mustache (requirement) but midlength beard. However his was s church i hadn't heard of yet- he invited us to his church. We may visit. They look Amish, allow cars. Can make ones head spin at times. He did bring up Holdemans,-

But "splitting" is a lot more than an Anabaptist thing. The Protestant world has thousands of denominations, and technically, almost all of them split from the Catholic church.

In any case, I belong to a group that avoids splitting, but I don't look down in judgment on other groups that have experienced splits. I have been through painful church splits when I was much younger in Protestant churches.

Josh, I don't feel like I'm looking down 'in judgement" about all this. Rather I take to heart Jesus prayer to His (our) Father that we (His Church) would be One (John 17:11). Don't you think Satan has some victory to claim here in making us all 'appear' divided? Or how about 1 Cor. 1:10 " Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing g, and that there may be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement". How are we doing on that, as a witness to the watching world?

[twinpines]

Berne is loosely affiliated with what is presently being called the "Ebenezer churches".
Ebenezer is a new network that has not yet officially formed. There are about 25 churches that aren't sure they want to continue being lumped in with, "the Charity churches", and decided that the only way to do this would be to give themselves a new name. At this point Ebenezer is more of a movement than a constituency.

Josh and Judas Maccabeus can tell you the affiliation of most any Anabaptist congregation you have interest in.

I have tried looking up online about the ebenezer churches but can't find anything. Is there a website or list of churches out there?

[Mayberry]

If you have questions, why not try connecting with some of those supposedly involved in the Ebenezer churches mentioned here? Maybe you could try one of the more well-known churches, Berne Christian Fellowship (http://www.bernechristianfellowship.org/contact-us.php). There is a typical "Contact Us" form and phone numbers where you an talk with those in leadership. That way you can get it directly from the horse's mouth, as the saying goes. I'd discount third-party reports and opinions by going directly to the source. Why not?

[Ernie]

From this thread.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?p=73219#p73219

Perhaps what I’m about to post should either be bunny-trailed or form its own new thread, but if mission workers should not take part in leadership roles (that makes sense to me and I agree), then shouldn’t our regular Anabaptist church plants similarly have a structure like the Charity groups where all heads of homes are considered Elders and there is no formal leaders? It appears to me that the Charity Churches approach to church planting sure prevents an individual or 2 from getting big heads and ‘lording’ their self-appointed authority over the rest of the new-forming group.

I am not aware of any Charity churches where there were no formal leaders. There probably are some so I would be glad to be enlightened.
The story that I have heard over and over is that someone who was a "patriarch" of his family tried taking this role in the church and it backfired.

[Josh]

“Charity” covers a very broad range at this point and I have personally seen a wide variety of leadership styles.

It’s probably more useful to describe these types of groups in terms of how similar they are to other groups of Mennonites. (Nearly all Charity groups are primarily Amish-Mennonite or Mennonite in origin, so I think this is a fair comparison.)

[Dan Z]

(Nearly all Charity groups are primarily Amish-Mennonite or Mennonite in origin, so I think this is a fair comparison.)

I haven't kept up with the Charity movement recently, but a decade or two ago a number of small Charity churches scattered far and wide were not of Amish-Mennonite origin (although some most were certainly informed by the Amish-Mennonite expression of faith and culture), but instead were made up of mainly of homeschooling, conservative, patriarchal, insular, "seeker" families exploring a more radical (counter-cultural) Christian lifestyle. I do believe that many of these congregations were shepherded by Amish-Mennonite leaders from the heart of the moment however. I wonder if this is no longer the case.

[mike]

From this thread.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?p=73219#p73219

Perhaps what I’m about to post should either be bunny-trailed or form its own new thread, but if mission workers should not take part in leadership roles (that makes sense to me and I agree), then shouldn’t our regular Anabaptist church plants similarly have a structure like the Charity groups where all heads of homes are considered Elders and there is no formal leaders? It appears to me that the Charity Churches approach to church planting sure prevents an individual or 2 from getting big heads and ‘lording’ their self-appointed authority over the rest of the new-forming group.

I am not aware of any Charity churches where there were no formal leaders. There probably are some so I would be glad to be enlightened.
The story that I have heard over and over is that someone who was a "patriarch" of his family tried taking this role in the church and it backfired.

I have never heard of a Charity church where there were no formal leaders and all heads of homes were considered elders. To the contrary, the ones I was familiar with 15+ years ago had a relatively authoritarian style of church governance, with a team of ordained elders led by a head elder being a typical setup. Although there were typically monthly brothers' meetings, this did not automatically indicate the brotherhood had decision-making power over the decisions of the elders.

[steve-in-kville]

I'd be curious to know what the average career length of a Charity minister is? Can't be more than a few years???

[Josh]

(Nearly all Charity groups are primarily Amish-Mennonite or Mennonite in origin, so I think this is a fair comparison.)

I haven't kept up with the Charity movement recently, but a decade or two ago a number of small Charity churches scattered far and wide were not of Amish-Mennonite origin (although some most were certainly informed by the Amish-Mennonite expression of faith and culture), but instead were made up of mainly of homeschooling, conservative, patriarchal, insular, "seeker" families exploring a more radical (counter-cultural) Christian lifestyle. I do believe that many of these congregations were shepherded by Amish-Mennonite leaders from the heart of the moment however. I wonder if this is no longer the case.

Basically very few of these people are still in the plain Anabaptist world. If I look at basically any Charity group today, most the last names are Amish-Mennonite names. There is a congregation or two I can think of that is primarily Hutterite.

One doesn’t even find Russian Mennonite last names. Sociologically, I would consider Charity to be part of the Amish-Mennonite universe, much like Beachyism or (to a lesser degree) the CMC.

[MaxPC]

Berne is loosely affiliated with what is presently being called the "Ebenezer churches".
Ebenezer is a new network that has not yet officially formed. There are about 25 churches that aren't sure they want to continue being lumped in with, "the Charity churches", and decided that the only way to do this would be to give themselves a new name. At this point Ebenezer is more of a movement than a constituency.

Josh and Judas Maccabeus can tell you the affiliation of most any Anabaptist congregation you have interest in.

Ernie,

What is the Ebenezer network’s level of affiliation with the five Elmendorf-type Hutterite colonies?

Is there any current news of the Ebenezer network? Does it still exist or has it become a part of another network/movement/affiliation?