Charity Ministries and assorted other topics

[Ernie]

I know this is an old thread, but...

Didn't Harmony Christian Fellowship have a few splinter groups break away in the past few years? I think one meets in Schaefferstown, Pa and the other is upstate??

I have heard a couple of Anabaptist born people claim that "Anabaptism is cursef with splitting". I never really understood or considered this could be true until I read these comments, questions, directories. Could there be any truth to this claim?

I think this applies to all conservative Christians.

Matthew Millioni says this...

"... if there is something to be learned here it is that there is a built-in propensity of conservative people to pick at each other to detriment. I recognize this tendency to criticize in almost every church I have been in since I have started down the kingdom road. It is a subtle and dangerous tendency. We truth seekers devote our lives to being right. We develop devotion to the things we find along the way that make us assume if everyone would be faithful they would be right where we are, and see things the way we do." 

[Valerie]

I know this is an old thread, but...

Didn't Harmony Christian Fellowship have a few splinter groups break away in the past few years? I think one meets in Schaefferstown, Pa and the other is upstate??

I have heard a couple of Anabaptist born people claim that "Anabaptism is cursef with splitting". I never really understood or considered this could be true until I read these comments, questions, directories. Could there be any truth to this claim?

I think this applies to all conservative Christians.

Matthew Millioni says this...

"... if there is something to be learned here it is that there is a built-in propensity of conservative people to pick at each other to detriment. I recognize this tendency to criticize in almost every church I have been in since I have started down the kingdom road. It is a subtle and dangerous tendency. We truth seekers devote our lives to being right. We develop devotion to the things we find along the way that make us assume if everyone would be faithful they would be right where we are, and see things the way we do." 

I see, yes it seems to be common. Sometimes at the benefit auctions in Holmes, I sense or witness we women "checking each other out", looking each other up & down. This is done in the world too. I think it's a 'natural' tendency.

Since this is the Charity thread, I remember right before Charity started having real problems a visiting pastor preached a very strong message called " Beware of Spiritual Pride". He was from another country seemed to be upset at what he witnessed in Lancaster County. I couId tell he was trying to convey the warning of what he called "spiritual Pride being an infection in the heart" to the Charity congregation he was addressing (I think this was in 2008). I often wondered if Charity didn't 'receive' this warning, which may have been 'one' reason things seemed to start falling apart after that (from what I could tell, since I was following Charity for some time)

[steve-in-kville]

I'm poaching your reply for another thread!!

Since this is the Charity thread, I remember right before Charity started having real problems a visiting pastor preached a very strong message called " Beware of Spiritual Pride". He was from another country seemed to be upset at what he witnessed in Lancaster County. I couId tell he was trying to convey the warning of what he called "spiritual Pride being an infection in the heart" to the Charity congregation he was addressing (I think this was in 2008). I often wondered if Charity didn't 'receive' this warning, which may have been 'one' reason things seemed to start falling apart after that (from what I could tell, since I was following Charity for some time)

[MaxPC]

Matthew Millioni says this...

"... if there is something to be learned here it is that there is a built-in propensity of conservative people to pick at each other to detriment. I recognize this tendency to criticize in almost every church I have been in since I have started down the kingdom road. It is a subtle and dangerous tendency.

It's not just among conservative people. I've seen it among the liberals too. I agree it's in almost every church.

We truth seekers devote our lives to being right. We develop devotion to the things we find along the way that make us assume if everyone would be faithful they would be right where we are, and see things the way we do." 

For those in the younger years (below 60 y.o. ) I would agree with this statement. As we get into our 70s and 80s the tendency is to be able to put these devotional preferences into a larger and more balanced perspective from a more informed (hopefully) life experience. We stop trying to change the world and focus on improving ourselves (hopefully) by looking for the log in our own eyes.

My experience has taught me that all Christians and Christian fellowships go through stages of development and maturation just like the individual human. Every religious group, whether Christian or not, has gone through divisions and splits; whether it's due to spiritual pride or simple fervor or some other reason, I don't think any of us can truly read hearts in that matter. No division or split is simple but rather it always involves a complexity of motivations and reasons for the actions.
YMMV: that's the view from my personal perspective of 84 years.

[Josh]

The largest group of Anabaptists (Old Order Amish) are still one rather big, massive group, so I don't think it's fair to say that all Anabaptists split like crazy.

My own church hasn't had any splits, and so far a grand total of 1 congregation out of hundreds has left in the entire history of the conference.

Nonetheless, before casting stones at plain people and their church splits, I suggest going and trying to be part of their church for a while, or else start your own and prove you can do it better. Living in close brotherhood is quite hard and can mean dealing with a lot of conflict. When I was young, my parents were evangelical / charismatic, and every single church they were in either split or just plain folded. None of them were Anabaptist.

[Valerie]

The largest group of Anabaptists (Old Order Amish) are still one rather big, massive group, so I don't think it's fair to say that all Anabaptists split like crazy.

My own church hasn't had any splits, and so far a grand total of 1 congregation out of hundreds has left in the entire history of the conference.

Nonetheless, before casting stones at plain people and their church splits, I suggest going and trying to be part of their church for a while, or else start your own and prove you can do it better. Living in close brotherhood is quite hard and can mean dealing with a lot of conflict. When I was young, my parents were evangelical / charismatic, and every single church they were in either split or just plain folded. None of them were Anabaptist.

For one thing. I apologize if I am coming across as "casting stones". That's a serious charge Biblically speaking, implying I'm seeing something " worthy of death," which I'm not at all. It was Anabaptists born I heard saying they believed there was a curse of splitting on the Anabaptists. As far as Amish go. There have been many many splits. Many orders are named after the splits (I.r. Swartzentruber. Weaver, Beachy, eyc Or Old Order, New Order. New New Order, & now New New Order. These kinds of things I believe had something to do with how Charity started. We met a man at Haiti Benefit Auction at meal time. He I thought was old order Amish. No mustache (requirement) but midlength beard. However his was s church i hadn't heard of yet- he invited us to his church. We may visit. They look Amish, allow cars. Can make ones head spin at times. He did bring up Holdemans,-

[Josh]

For one thing. I apologize if I am coming across as "casting stones". That's a serious charge Biblically speaking, implying I'm seeing something " worthy of death," which I'm not at all. It was Anabaptists born I heard saying they believed there was a curse of splitting on the Anabaptists. As far as Amish go. There have been many many splits. Many orders are named after the splits (I.r. Swartzentruber. Weaver, Beachy, eyc Or Old Order, New Order. New New Order, & now New New Order. These kinds of things I believe had something to do with how Charity started. We met a man at Haiti Benefit Auction at meal time. He I thought was old order Amish. No mustache (requirement) but midlength beard. However his was s church i hadn't heard of yet- he invited us to his church. We may visit. They look Amish, allow cars. Can make ones head spin at times. He did bring up Holdemans,-

But "splitting" is a lot more than an Anabaptist thing. The Protestant world has thousands of denominations, and technically, almost all of them split from the Catholic church.

In any case, I belong to a group that avoids splitting, but I don't look down in judgment on other groups that have experienced splits. I have been through painful church splits when I was much younger in Protestant churches.

[gcdonner]

For one thing. I apologize if I am coming across as "casting stones". That's a serious charge Biblically speaking, implying I'm seeing something " worthy of death," which I'm not at all. It was Anabaptists born I heard saying they believed there was a curse of splitting on the Anabaptists. As far as Amish go. There have been many many splits. Many orders are named after the splits (I.r. Swartzentruber. Weaver, Beachy, eyc Or Old Order, New Order. New New Order, & now New New Order. These kinds of things I believe had something to do with how Charity started. We met a man at Haiti Benefit Auction at meal time. He I thought was old order Amish. No mustache (requirement) but midlength beard. However his was s church i hadn't heard of yet- he invited us to his church. We may visit. They look Amish, allow cars. Can make ones head spin at times. He did bring up Holdemans,-

But "splitting" is a lot more than an Anabaptist thing. The Protestant world has thousands of denominations, and technically, almost all of them split from the Catholic church.

In any case, I belong to a group that avoids splitting, but I don't look down in judgment on other groups that have experienced splits. I have been through painful church splits when I was much younger in Protestant churches.

I suspect that rather than splitting in your circles, folks just leave?

I have learned that whenever you have two people in the same denomination, be it Amish, Mennonite, Charity, Baptist, Lutheran or whatever, you will have 3 opinions...

[MaxPC]

I have learned that whenever you have two people in the same denomination, be it Amish, Mennonite, Charity, Baptist, Lutheran or whatever, you will have 3 opinions...

I like this quotable quote, GC

[Valerie]

For one thing. I apologize if I am coming across as "casting stones". That's a serious charge Biblically speaking, implying I'm seeing something " worthy of death," which I'm not at all. It was Anabaptists born I heard saying they believed there was a curse of splitting on the Anabaptists. As far as Amish go. There have been many many splits. Many orders are named after the splits (I.r. Swartzentruber. Weaver, Beachy, eyc Or Old Order, New Order. New New Order, & now New New Order. These kinds of things I believe had something to do with how Charity started. We met a man at Haiti Benefit Auction at meal time. He I thought was old order Amish. No mustache (requirement) but midlength beard. However his was s church i hadn't heard of yet- he invited us to his church. We may visit. They look Amish, allow cars. Can make ones head spin at times. He did bring up Holdemans,-

But "splitting" is a lot more than an Anabaptist thing. The Protestant world has thousands of denominations, and technically, almost all of them split from the Catholic church.

In any case, I belong to a group that avoids splitting, but I don't look down in judgment on other groups that have experienced splits. I have been through painful church splits when I was much younger in Protestant churches.

Josh, I don't feel like I'm looking down 'in judgement" about all this. Rather I take to heart Jesus prayer to His (our) Father that we (His Church) would be One (John 17:11). Don't you think Satan has some victory to claim here in making us all 'appear' divided? Or how about 1 Cor. 1:10 " Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing g, and that there may be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement". How are we doing on that, as a witness to the watching world?