Non-resistance: Where do you draw the line [POLL]

[ken_sylvania]

Within the last year I saw an advertisement for "a net in a spray can" that would envelope a suspected criminal and tie/tangle him up. I can't find the ad now.
I'm thinking this would fit under number 4. Am I thinking correctly?

Something like this large animal net gun? Can you imagine Peter using one of these to capture robbers on the road to Jericho after his conversion? For some reason the idea of being prepared with defensive weapons doesn't settle well with me. I don't see examples anywhere in the gospels or in Acts.

[JimFoxvog]

Can you imagine Peter using one of these to capture robbers on the road to Jericho after his conversion?

I don't recall the event you are referring to.

[Ernie]

What do you think about the hemp trap plan referred to in this story on PAGE 13?
http://legacy.canadianmennonite.org/vol ... -03-03.pdf
Would you be ok with the Apostle Peter doing something like this to the robbers?

SNIPPIT

.... Miller counselled patience
and came up with an approach he
thought best for the perpetrators and the
community. With his sons, he designed a
hemp rope trap and set it by his corn crib.
Early one morning the Miller household
was awakened by cursing and
shouts of “Let me out of here.”
Miller and his sons stood looking up at
this mountain man writhing in the trap.
“What is your name?” he asked as the
man continued to flail about.
“Let me out of here,” the man persisted.
“First your name,” Miller said. “Mine’s
Benedict. These are my sons Jonathon
and Tobias.”
Belching out curses, the man finally
muttered, “Frank.”
“Now we’ll let you out, but on one
condition,” Miller replied. “First join our
family for breakfast.”
The would-be thief finally agreed.
“On your word then” said Miller, adding,
“Besides, my sons can outrun you.”
At breakfast, Miller offered a prayer
thanking God for daily bread, health,
country, neighbours, and for Jesus and
for God’s love for everyone.
After breakfast, Miller offered Frank a
bag of corn. “It has been a poor harvest
and people are hungry,” he said. “You
may have this for man or beast, but not
for moonshine. Tell your neighbours
that if they have need, we still have some
corn, extra eggs, canned meat. . . . But
you know, no one needs to take it from
us. Just ask us. . . . Others have helped us
when we needed it.”

[ken_sylvania]

Can you imagine Peter using one of these to capture robbers on the road to Jericho after his conversion?

I don't recall the event you are referring to.

Sorry, that wasn't very clear, was it. I was posing a hypothetical scenario.
According to history the rugged terrain between Jerusalem and Jericho was a common haunt of highwaymen (this was the setting of the story of the good Samaritan). Peter was a fighter before his conversion, but after his conversion we have no record of him resisting violence using any kind of force whatsoever.

[JimFoxvog]

Sorry, that wasn't very clear, was it. I was posing a hypothetical scenario.
According to history the rugged terrain between Jerusalem and Jericho was a common haunt of highwaymen (this was the setting of the story of the good Samaritan). Peter was a fighter before his conversion, but after his conversion we have no record of him resisting violence using any kind of force whatsoever.

That makes more sense, but I'm not sure what event you are referring to when you talk of Peter's conversion. He cut off the servant's ear at Jesus' arrest, after he declared Jesus was the Messiah.

[Dan Z]

Ernie...I like your hemp-net story. It illustrates the complexity of nonresistance, and the potential for creative non-violent intervention. I think it fits #4.

I think conflict is often oversimplified in our discussions, as if the only choice we have is to use violent (potentially deadly) force against a threat, or simply stand there passively and accept our fate. The reality is that there is a whole range of possibilities in between those two extremes - many of them compatible with a commitment nonresistance and respect for the sanctity of life.

This is worth remembering when someone challenges your non-resistance by saying "You mean you would just stand there and do nothing if a perpetrator tried to harm your wife or children?"

[Dan Z]

A taser feels over the line for me - probably would fit into #5 (non-lethal yet potentially harmful force). I couldn't use one, although I do appreciate when law enforcement chooses this option over a gun when possible.

Pepper-spray is right on the edge for me - like a 4.5 or somewhere in there - non-lethal, minimally harmful. I think I would feel OK if one of my daughters carried pepper-spray in certain circumstances, though I probably wouldn't carry it personally. Double standard??

[Josh]

A taser feels over the line for me - probably would fit into #5 (non-lethal yet potentially harmful force).

I couldn't use one, although I do appreciate when law enforcement chooses this option over a gun when possible.

Tasers are not non-lethal, either.

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/201407 ... /140709682

[ken_sylvania]

Sorry, that wasn't very clear, was it. I was posing a hypothetical scenario.
According to history the rugged terrain between Jerusalem and Jericho was a common haunt of highwaymen (this was the setting of the story of the good Samaritan). Peter was a fighter before his conversion, but after his conversion we have no record of him resisting violence using any kind of force whatsoever.

That makes more sense, but I'm not sure what event you are referring to when you talk of Peter's conversion. He cut off the servant's ear at Jesus' arrest, after he declared Jesus was the Messiah.

I'm not sure exactly when he was converted either, but I would suggest it may have been either when he met Jesus on the shore of Lake Gennesaret after Jesus' resurrection or when he received the Holy Spirit. According to Jesus statement at the last supper (I have prayed for thee ... when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.), Peter's was not yet converted at that time, even though he knew and believed that Jesus was the Messiah.

[ken_sylvania]

Ernie...I like your hemp-net story. It illustrates the complexity of nonresistance, and the potential for creative non-violent intervention. I think it fits #4.

I think conflict is often oversimplified in our discussions, as if the only choice we have is to use violent (potentially deadly) force against a threat, or simply stand there passively and accept our fate. The reality is that there is a whole range of possibilities in between those two extremes - many of them compatible with a commitment nonresistance and respect for the sanctity of life.

This is worth remembering when someone challenges your non-resistance by saying "You mean you would just stand there and do nothing if a perpetrator tried to harm your wife or children?"

I agree.