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Josh wrote:At question here is the definition of "biblical marriage", "biblical salvation", and "biblical baptism". Their definition of marriage excludes half of conservative Mennonites.

You mean the belief and practice of half of conservative Mennonites. Not half of conservative Mennonite marriages, correct?

Conservative Anabaptists are divided on their view of marriage, but both halves give each other the right hand of fellowship. Some do not allow folks of the other persuasion to preach in their churches.

FotW invites people of the other persuasion (people who have urged them to reconsider their position) to preach in their churches. So it seems to me they are more tolerant on this issue than most conservative Anabaptists.

Josh wrote: In Kiravilla's book "King Jesus Claims His Church" he defines salvation as something that happens with baptism. That puts him at odds with virtually all Mennonites.

True.
However, virtually all Mennonites would say that a person who does not seek baptism or avoids getting baptized is in danger of losing his salvation. So at the end of the day, they kind of believe the same thing, the one just wants to take more time and make sure a person is born of the Spirit and ready to submit and commit himself to the local body.

Ernie wrote:

Josh wrote:At question here is the definition of "biblical marriage", "biblical salvation", and "biblical baptism". Their definition of marriage excludes half of conservative Mennonites.

You mean the belief and practice of half of conservative Mennonites. Not half of conservative Mennonite marriages, correct?

Conservative Anabaptists are divided on their view of marriage, but both halves give each other the right hand of fellowship. Some do not allow folks of the other persuasion to preach in their churches.

FotW invites people of the other persuasion (people who have urged them to reconsider their position) to preach in their churches. So it seems to me they are more tolerant on this issue than most conservative Anabaptists.

Josh wrote: In Kiravilla's book "King Jesus Claims His Church" he defines salvation as something that happens with baptism. That puts him at odds with virtually all Mennonites.

True.
However, virtually all Mennonites would say that a person who does not seek baptism or avoids getting baptized is in danger of losing his salvation. So at the end of the day, they kind of believe the same thing, the one just wants to take more time and make sure a person is born of the Spirit and ready to submit and commit himself to the local body.

I hope you fellows are not losing sight of the OP... this thread is for a seeker, remember?

Ernie wrote:

Josh wrote:At question here is the definition of "biblical marriage", "biblical salvation", and "biblical baptism". Their definition of marriage excludes half of conservative Mennonites.

You mean the belief and practice of half of conservative Mennonites. Not half of conservative Mennonite marriages, correct?

Correct, but this is still a big deal to them.

Conservative Anabaptists are divided on their view of marriage, but both halves give each other the right hand of fellowship. Some do not allow folks of the other persuasion to preach in their churches.

FotW invites people of the other persuasion (people who have urged them to reconsider their position) to preach in their churches. So it seems to me they are more tolerant on this issue than most conservative Anabaptists.

Ok, that would be accurate. Since they look up to cradle conservative Anabaptists, they would be pretty confident allowing that. (I highly doubt I would be tolerated at all unless I reformed my views.)

Josh wrote: In Kiravilla's book "King Jesus Claims His Church" he defines salvation as something that happens with baptism. That puts him at odds with virtually all Mennonites.

True.
However, virtually all Mennonites would say that a person who does not seek baptism or avoids getting baptized is in danger of losing his salvation. So at the end of the day, they kind of believe the same thing, the one just wants to take more time and make sure a person is born of the Spirit and ready to submit and commit himself to the local body.

Here is how Matthew and Tim laid it out to me:

1. Mennonites are deceived about baptism but have honest hearts. God will forgive them since they have never heard the honest truth preached.

2. But one who hears the true message of salvation - to be fully immersed and then washed of your sins - has a responsibility to do it.

3. If they don't do it they are rejecting Christ and salvation.

When I asked them point blank if there is any chance I could be saved, they hemmed and hawed for a few minutes and then said "no", since I had just heard the true plan of salvation.

I hope you fellows are not losing sight of the OP... this thread is for a seeker, remember?

I held my tongue for a while and then realised that would mean certain voices (coincidentally non-Mennonite voices) would dominate. I have given up on this ever being a place that is helpful to seekers.

If I laid out my belief on baptism I would share with a new seeker, you and I would instantly be launched into an argument.

Josh wrote:

I hope you fellows are not losing sight of the OP... this thread is for a seeker, remember?

I held my tongue for a while and then realised that would mean certain voices (coincidentally non-Mennonite voices) would dominate. I have given up on this ever being a place that is helpful to seekers.

If I laid out my belief on baptism I would share with a new seeker, you and I would instantly be launched into an argument.

Why not start a new thread to discuss this issue?

gcdonner wrote:

Josh wrote:

I hope you fellows are not losing sight of the OP... this thread is for a seeker, remember?

I held my tongue for a while and then realised that would mean certain voices (coincidentally non-Mennonite voices) would dominate. I have given up on this ever being a place that is helpful to seekers.

If I laid out my belief on baptism I would share with a new seeker, you and I would instantly be launched into an argument.

Why not start a new thread to discuss this issue?

??? Start a new thread to answer the OP's question?

Josh wrote:

gcdonner wrote:

Josh wrote:
I held my tongue for a while and then realised that would mean certain voices (coincidentally non-Mennonite voices) would dominate. I have given up on this ever being a place that is helpful to seekers.

If I laid out my belief on baptism I would share with a new seeker, you and I would instantly be launched into an argument.

Why not start a new thread to discuss this issue?

??? Start a new thread to answer the OP's question?

LOL, no to discuss the FotW views...

Oh, that would be most welcome.

Josh wrote:Oh, that would be most welcome.

Go for it!

Josh wrote:1. Mennonites are deceived about baptism but have honest hearts. God will forgive them since they have never heard the honest truth preached.

2. But one who hears the true message of salvation - to be fully immersed and then washed of your sins - has a responsibility to do it.

3. If they don't do it they are rejecting Christ and salvation.

Guess I'd better not download and listen to any more of their sermons, lest I lose my ignorance and thus my salvation.