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ohio jones wrote:

Haystack wrote:I should of clarified in my posts that where I'm located very modest homes are 900K+ at the least, which is what I was referring to when I originally posted about financially being able to afford more children. I agree with you Steve, if I could move somewhere more affordable with the plainest of plain houses, a old car that gets the job done, no fancy toys, no luxuries, I would be happy as a clam.

I admit to being a serial cross-threader. Here's a clamshell (and there are more where this came from, though this appears to be one of the better ones) for about 1% of the price in your area. Just think of all the children you could afford, maybe even more than could fit inside.

Hmm, Flint MI.... I've often thought it would be awesome for a HUGE group of Anabaptists to all decide to move and "buyout" Flint MI. Like every house that is for sale just buy - clean - move in. Start churches there.

It would be such the hugest contrast for that community and also there would be plenty of Anabaptist around. There are MANY houses for 10-30k. Get several churches going too.

I point at YOU to start it! Oh and the next person who reads this, I'm pointing at you too!

Chris wrote:I point at YOU to start it! Oh and the next person who reads this, I'm pointing at you too!

As it happens, we are getting ready to send a family (in keeping with the thread, our largest family ) to work with the homeless in Flint. Two others with roots in our congregation are already there and involved in the church. They would certainly welcome more Anabaptists.

Chris wrote:Large families are awesome and I can't imagine not having even one of my children or children to be that God intends me to have.

Economy and money are pretty silly excuses in my opinion. Rice and beans are cheap... Scratch and dents stores are cheap. Thrifts stores are cheap. Economical cars are cheap. Health insurance is the same for yourself+spouse, than a bit is added for "children" (unspecified amount between 1 to ?).

This is my opinion on the matter, but we all stand before God on judgment day.

my daughter and her husband have 1 daughter, now 9.
my daughter seems (to me) to be "overly focused" on any little perceived (imperfection?) this child may have. i try to assure her, "all is well."
yesterday, we were continuing this ongoing chat, finally, i told her, "i believe the answers to your questions would be to have 7 children." i told her, it takes practice for parents to learn what to expect from children!

i don't believe she much-appreciated my suggestion.

years ago, i read, after China began it's 1-child policy, they then developed problems with parents "over-focusing," over-indulging, their single children. (there are more problems, since.)

(this is in no way intended to criticize small families, or those who have no children, for all the various reasons, there are many. it's not always a choice, either way. it's just one spontaneous response to one moment in time.)

Chris wrote:Large families are awesome and I can't imagine not having even one of my children or children to be that God intends me to have.

Economy and money are pretty silly excuses in my opinion. Rice and beans are cheap... Scratch and dents stores are cheap. Thrifts stores are cheap. Economical cars are cheap. Health insurance is the same for yourself+spouse, than a bit is added for "children" (unspecified amount between 1 to ?).

This is my opinion on the matter, but we all stand before God on judgment day.

You might be a bit out of touch with what the working class face in urban areas. Scratch and dent stores are less common and less cheap in the big cities. Economical cars aren't cheap when you have to get them fixed a lot at expensive repair shops, and you don't have enough space in your 1 bedroom apartment to work on a car yourself. Health insurance is not cheaper as you add kids - most new plans now have a fixed amount for every child, not just one family rate.

In the cities, the working class spend most of their money on rent or buying a house so they can be in a neighbourhood that is safe and possibly one with good schools. There isn't much money left after that for anything else. You can't be a very good parent to your kids if it's unsafe for them to step out into their front yard in the middle of the dad. And it's difficult to have a large family when you live in a tiny house or apartment. Not impossible, but it's difficult.

Chris wrote:Hmm, Flint MI.... I've often thought it would be awesome for a HUGE group of Anabaptists to all decide to move and "buyout" Flint MI. Like every house that is for sale just buy - clean - move in. Start churches there.

It would be such the hugest contrast for that community and also there would be plenty of Anabaptist around. There are MANY houses for 10-30k. Get several churches going too.

The reason they are so cheap is because they are in neighbourhoods that are crime-ridden and where someone living in that house will not be very safe. A group of Anabaptists settled in Phoenix a while ago but had to deal with pretty regular burglaries in the area where they could afford to live. Flint doesn't have a lot of good employment options, and it's hard to build up a strong base of self employment if your stuff is constantly getting stolen.

The group in Phoenix eventually migrated to Wickenburg, which was at the time a much more rural community that was safer.

There are groups that are doing good work in high-crime areas and finding ways to support their families and businesses. York and Reading are two examples. But those missions have been there a long time and they still face significant challenges today.

Been in Flint, MI, only once, and that was to pick up an ex-con from a crack house for his father. In retrospect, it probably wasn't a smart thing to do. He had called and asked me to come for him; and that was after telling me previously that nobody wants to be in Flint. I guess my middle name should be Sucker. Live and learn.

Joy wrote:Been in Flint, MI, only once, and that was to pick up an ex-con from a crack house for his father. In retrospect, it probably wasn't a smart thing to do. He had called and asked me to come for him; and that was after telling me previously that nobody wants to be in Flint. I guess my middle name should be Sucker. Live and learn.

when we're honest, i suppose, it's "a wonder" any of us makes it to adulthood/older ages. not all do. it's all a decision of God's Will, not our personal inherent ability to make only wise decisions.

today, with the internet, when some young person is hurt or killed as result of poor judgment, lots of commenters will accuse that person, or his/her parents/others of neglect, or worse! -
but, honestly, what older person cannot recall times when they had close calls, lapses in judgment, etc.?
we don't like to remember those first-person moments very often.
sometimes, i think back, and, "shudder."
and, Joy, we're girls/females!

Chris wrote: Hmm, Flint MI.... I've often thought it would be awesome for a HUGE group of Anabaptists to all decide to move and "buyout" Flint MI. Like every house that is for sale just buy - clean - move in. Start churches there.

They tried that already. In Lancaster County. Didn't end well. Now you need a rich daddy to survive in that area.

steve-in-kville wrote:

Chris wrote: Hmm, Flint MI.... I've often thought it would be awesome for a HUGE group of Anabaptists to all decide to move and "buyout" Flint MI. Like every house that is for sale just buy - clean - move in. Start churches there.

They tried that already. In Lancaster County. Didn't end well. Now you need a rich daddy to survive in that area.

And now they keep building more and more housing developments on farm land. Don't they know the only reason they get so many tourists to that area is because of the farm land and Amish?

Lancaster hasn't had any new Amish settlements in a while, even though many new settlements are happening elsewhere. Holmes County is bigger now and communities in Wisconsin are growing fast too. Eventually, Lancaster might just be another suburb of NYC/Philadelphia/DC.