Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

[Josh]

I don't know how many people are using these, and Josh doesn't either. I do know that Dr Nolan Byler wrote about this last factor, and he said that almost always when he alerted women to the fact that some birth control methods caused abortions, almost all of them stopped using them. I suspect that this is a matter of ignorance more than anything else.

I don't know what people as a whole use - only my closest friends where they would share such information or ask my opinion. Nobody used anything I consider an abortifacient. (Mirena IUD does not use abortifacients despite the propaganda from some people saying it does.)

I think a husband and wife should discuss such things together. Health issues, the mother's ability to keep the household organized, and finances are all things that can be considered. I agree that often selfishness is at the root of using birth control, but that is no reason to go to the opposite extreme.

I wholeheartedly agree and perhaps a more kingdom focused mindset is to discuss when it is selfish to avoid having kids, versus when it is selfish to keep having more.

[Josh]

Because the choice to limit God's blessings except with possibly some major health concerns would be for me only selfish reasons. Maybe others can convince themselves otherwise but that is how it is for me.

I believe that is definitely true for you & your wife and I am glad you are living out not being selfish. I think that's good and healthy.

Is refraining from something because others that are wrong are doing it just Protestant thinking?! Reminds of a Baptist Pastor saying, "even though the Bible uses the term Bishop, we don't - because the Catholics do...."

I think it's good to assess the fruits of people who have promoted the "quiverfull" concept, because this concept didn't really exist before them. American society as a whole hasn't been interested in having very large families in a long time; in the 19th century, some eugenicists were bemoaning how Americans were having fewer kids which would lead to the demise of "good human stock", or something.

However, again I said nothing in support of having as many children possible. The idea of allowing God to have control also has to accompany accepting how little amount of children God allows us as well, if any.

I agree, although I think since God placed us in the 21st century, he has placed in a time when we have incredible amounts of control over things that people in past times left up to random chance. That means we have to make decisions about what will build the kingdom best.

[Wade]

I agree, although I think since God placed us in the 21st century, he has placed in a time when we have incredible amounts of control over things that people in past times left up to random chance. That means we have to make decisions about what will build the kingdom best.

Sounds a bit troubling... Just because when sense overrules faith I don't like where we are likely to end up and where we are if that is true...

I imagine you are not saying that but it is what came to my mind with the wording...

[steve-in-kville]

A bit off topic, but here goes...

My wife and I are blessed with a large family. It is amazing the perspectives that folks have toward large families compared to your social/economic status. For example:

When I was a successful business owner and could afford the "mennonite dream", our large family was the greatest thing to everyone. When the economy tanked back in 2009 and I lost everything, was legally sued and fell on hard times, I was questioned about the wisdom in having such a large family. There were even insinuations that our last few children were "mistakes" or we "weren't careful enough."

Fancy how money changes things, eh?

[Josh]

In biblical times, having lots of children was viewed as a sign of wealth and also of being blessed by the gods, much like having much gold, goats, sheep, land, wives, etc

It seems for a kingdom believer our blessings are not measured in earthly riches (including big families), but in treasures store up in heaven. God's heart seems to be most aligned with the orphan, the widow, the poor. Comparatively, those with wealth he issued strong warnings to, particularly in the New Testament. Wealth is no longer really seen as a blessing at all in the NT, but rather as a responsibility.

[mike]

It seems for a kingdom believer our blessings are not measured in earthly riches (including big families), but in treasures store up in heaven. God's heart seems to be most aligned with the orphan, the widow, the poor. Comparatively, those with wealth he issued strong warnings to, particularly in the New Testament. Wealth is no longer really seen as a blessing at all in the NT, but rather as a responsibility.

I have never thought of children as being "earthly riches" - in the same category as money and material goods. Are you really intending to characterize children as something that a Christian should not accumulate per Jesus' command not to accumulate earthly riches?

[Wayne in Maine]

It seems for a kingdom believer our blessings are not measured in earthly riches (including big families), but in treasures store up in heaven. God's heart seems to be most aligned with the orphan, the widow, the poor. Comparatively, those with wealth he issued strong warnings to, particularly in the New Testament. Wealth is no longer really seen as a blessing at all in the NT, but rather as a responsibility.

I have never thought of children as being "earthly riches" - in the same category as money and material goods. Are you really intending to characterize children as something that a Christian should not accumulate per Jesus' command not to accumulate earthly riches?

According to Jesus they apparently are:

Jesus said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Those who heard this asked, “Then who can be saved?”

He replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”

Then Peter said, “Look, we have left what we had and followed You.”

So He said to them, “I assure you: There is no one who has left a house, wife or brothers, parents or children because of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more at this time, and eternal life in the age to come.”

[mike]

A bit off topic, but here goes...

My wife and I are blessed with a large family. It is amazing the perspectives that folks have toward large families compared to your social/economic status. For example:

When I was a successful business owner and could afford the "mennonite dream", our large family was the greatest thing to everyone. When the economy tanked back in 2009 and I lost everything, was legally sued and fell on hard times, I was questioned about the wisdom in having such a large family. There were even insinuations that our last few children were "mistakes" or we "weren't careful enough."

Fancy how money changes things, eh?

Isn't it, though? I think though that for the most part large families become less prevalent in a society as affluence increases. Large families are at least as often associated with poverty and irresponsibility as they are with wealth and affluence. Large families are often seen as being irresponsible financially and health-wise. On the other hand, if you can provide for your large family financially and are blessed with good health, it is sometimes said that you are rich and proud. Oh well.

[mike]

It seems for a kingdom believer our blessings are not measured in earthly riches (including big families), but in treasures store up in heaven. God's heart seems to be most aligned with the orphan, the widow, the poor. Comparatively, those with wealth he issued strong warnings to, particularly in the New Testament. Wealth is no longer really seen as a blessing at all in the NT, but rather as a responsibility.

I have never thought of children as being "earthly riches" - in the same category as money and material goods. Are you really intending to characterize children as something that a Christian should not accumulate per Jesus' command not to accumulate earthly riches?

According to Jesus they apparently are:

Jesus said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Those who heard this asked, “Then who can be saved?”

He replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”

Then Peter said, “Look, we have left what we had and followed You.”

So He said to them, “I assure you: There is no one who has left a house, wife or brothers, parents or children because of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more at this time, and eternal life in the age to come.”

Jesus' teaching on birth control, eh? Who would have thunk.

[temporal1]

i always thought of our children as gifts of God, belonging to God, we are the caretakers.
we experienced 3 miscarriages, 2 before a live birth, 1 in between, no cause known.
when my granddaughter was born, i thought, "in us, God trusts," i was so touched by the infant's dependency and vulnerability. this, not by accident.

i strongly agree, false gods can be made of anything .. tangible and/or intangible.
the temptation of false gods is ever-present.
but, that is not the failure of the person, object, or thought, it's the failure of the heart.

Romans 14:14

The Law of Love
13Therefore let us stop judging one another.
Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.

14I am convinced and fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself.
But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.

15If your brother is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love.
Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.…
Berean Study Bible