Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by temporal1 »

in order to leave your children, you first must have them. ;)
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Josh
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by Josh »

Money is a gift from God, too, and is a blessing.

It's pretty clear as Christians our goal on earth isn't to hoard blessings.

And conservative Mennonites should really embrace this idea of not having children since they expect about half of Americans to have no children if they get saved & join a conservative church.
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mike
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by mike »

Josh wrote:Money is a gift from God, too, and is a blessing.

It's pretty clear as Christians our goal on earth isn't to hoard blessings.

And conservative Mennonites should really embrace this idea of not having children since they expect about half of Americans to have no children if they get saved & join a conservative church.
Conservative Mennonites generally are embracing the idea of smaller families, which I assume you see as a good trend.

My close friend and his wife, from my church, were barren for 14 years, and it was painful for them to see their friends have children while their own child-bearing years were slipping away. They delighted in their friends' children and God provided them with ways to serve that they could not have followed otherwise, and a year ago they experienced a surprise birth. The elder in our church has been single his entire life and has no children. I know what it is like to walk alongside those who haven't been able to have physical children, and I have seen God bless them with spiritual children. I believe that both the childless and those with children need to accept their calling and serve God well in it, without resentment or jealousy toward others. Each of us has his individual cross to bear. For some it is having children, for some it is not having children.

I rewrote this several times because I'm trying to avoid remarks that might offend. I do not want to hurt those who are already wounded. I want to defend the view of children as blessings from God. That is all.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:
Wade wrote:This is answer further Josh's question of why birth control saddens me.

It is also important to realize some of the birth control Josh mentioned are not 100% effective always at preventing conception. Manufacturers are aware of this and so they include abortifacient qualities into them as well. So admittedly they recognize that some birth control methods are causing abortions but going unknown to the user because the life is too small.

So if we are uncomfortable with abortion what does it say for us when according to Josh we are using products that cause them?
It's a myth that most methods of birth control include abortifacients, and it is already widespread among Christian people to avoid the few that might have a risk of this.

The main people pushing the idea that birth control uses abortifacients are Catholic sources who are militantly opposed to any birth control whatsoever, so I don't find them a credible source. Objective sources don't think birth control relies on abortifacients.
Don't get me started here. I have actually seen 19th century tools used for extracting stillborn children that the mother could not deliver presented as "Abortion Tools."

The whole debate about progesterone containing birth control pills could be summed up as follows "We know they suppress ovulation, therefor no realistic possibility of conception, however IF they fail, and IF there is fertilization, it would likely prevent pregnancy by that means . A lot of IFs there. IF they were consistent, they would insist on a monthly funeral for any woman of childbearing age just in case a conception occurred without implantation. (Which it frequently does)

They proclaim this is "life" but consistently act otherwise.

Since they forbid any form of birth control, it seems there is no barrier to exaggerate or twist the truth to fit their worldview.

J.M.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

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Quite personally, anything much beyond a barrier method or abstinence (or rhythm) is a gray area. Never was wild about the pill... seems like we are messing too much with God's nature of things.
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Josh
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

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steve-in-kville wrote:Quite personally, anything much beyond a barrier method or abstinence (or rhythm) is a gray area. Never was wild about the pill... seems like we are messing too much with God's nature of things.
I agree with you - except I can't make it a morality / sin issue, since scripture's silence is deafening on the topic.

I feel like GMOs are messing too much with God's nature of things too, but that doesn't mean eating such food is immoral.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by steve-in-kville »

Like I said, just my own opinion.
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temporal1
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by temporal1 »

steve-in-kville wrote:Quite personally, anything much beyond a barrier method or abstinence (or rhythm) is a gray area. Never was wild about the pill... seems like we are messing too much with God's nature of things.
i agree.
thing is, government is 'way interferring with this, especially when it comes to their DOE policies, and throughout healthcare. this (propaganda) massively "tips the scales" of human understanding.
i.e., activists+lobbyists influencing+controlling government policies. they profit, thus, they lobby for it!

remove the profit, the subject would be dropped like a rock.
there is no base concern for women, children, families.

Wade has shared several personal accounts of this biased pressure, i've experienced some, it's affecting everyone, in some way or another. high school and college students believe (irresponsible sex) artificial birth control, abortion, are necessities of life. they didn't just make that up on their own! it's deliberate indoctrination, paid with everyone's combined tax dollars.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

steve-in-kville wrote:Quite personally, anything much beyond a barrier method or abstinence (or rhythm) is a gray area. Never was wild about the pill... seems like we are messing too much with God's nature of things.
Would not be a gray area if false facts were not propagated and encouraged, presented as fact by certain people in the anti birth control camp. Take a gander at this:

http://www.alternet.org/christian-scien ... mens-wombs

You mess with nature every time you take medication for a strep throat. If you don't mess with nature you may well get scarlet fever ( Two of my would be uncles died from this in the early 1930s). The only reason that birth control is regarded as a unique case is that some of the full-quiver types have made it so.

You are surely entitled to your opinion, and am sure you think this through. What bothers me is when pseudoscience is presented as fact.

Blessings,

J.M.
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Wade
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Re: Conservative Anabaptists and Birth Control

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:In biblical times, having lots of children was viewed as a sign of wealth and also of being blessed by the gods, much like having much gold, goats, sheep, land, wives, etc

It seems for a kingdom believer our blessings are not measured in earthly riches (including big families), but in treasures store up in heaven. God's heart seems to be most aligned with the orphan, the widow, the poor. Comparatively, those with wealth he issued strong warnings to, particularly in the New Testament. Wealth is no longer really seen as a blessing at all in the NT, but rather as a responsibility.
I wonder what you are implying?
When we were having our fifth child, we missed a lot of Sunday services only because we couldn't afford to go. Meanwhile our family was a small one in comparison to others in the church. Would you have thought it wiser for us to have used birth control (which we couldn't afford at the time either) and try to be more certain we could make it to church?
How can we know what hard or good times might come?
And
Where do think the kingdom of God is?
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