CAM Molestation Issue

[Ernie]

You’ve been very forthright and have been a credit to CAM, though sometimes I think you’re trying to save them from themselves, and that’s often a losing battle.

The underlined is going straight over my head, so if you want enlighten me or share examples here publically or by PM, I am open to that.

What I mean is that CAM seems to have made the decision to hunker down, not say much of anything, and try to ride this out. Ernie, you don’t think that’s the right way to handle it and you see the consequences of that way of handling it. And you like CAM and you want it to do well, so you’re here trying to mitigate some of those consequences for CAM. That’s what I mean by saving them from themselves.

I think you and I are mostly on the same page. I know that I have repeatedly asked on MN that we not lump everyone at CAM into the same group. I'm not sure if we are on the same page on this point.
I could hang out my own laundry list about CAM if I thought that would be helpful in some way.
I would not say that I like CAM. I do very much like some of the people at CAM.
I don't think I view CAM differently from other Plain Anabaptist ministries. I want all of them to do well. Each of the ministries that I am familiar with have their own strengths and weaknesses. Some have more weaknesses than others.
I've been planning to lay down my management role at CAM now for quite a few years. That is scheduled to happen at the end of this month.
I have worked for another large ministry in the past and felt much more comfortable with that organization, but I left that organization as it's mission didn't align with my gifts and calling as well. For what its worth...

[steve-in-kville]

I think you and I are mostly on the same page. I know that I have repeatedly asked on MN that we not lump everyone at CAM into the same group. I'm not sure if we are on the same page on this point.
I could hang out my own laundry list about CAM if I thought that would be helpful in some way.
I would not say that I like CAM. I do very much like some of the people at CAM.
I don't think I view CAM differently from other Plain Anabaptist ministries. I want all of them to do well. Each of the ministries that I am familiar with have their own strengths and weaknesses. Some have more weaknesses than others.
I've been planning to lay down my management role at CAM now for quite a few years. That is scheduled to happen at the end of this month.
I have worked for another large ministry in the past and felt much more comfortable with that organization, but I left that organization as it's mission didn't align with my gifts and calling as well. For what its worth...

I applaud your straight forwardness.

[Chris]

138 pages long.

Would love to see a 1380 page long thread on how much good CAM is doing.

[steve-in-kville]

138 pages long.

Would love to see a 1380 page long thread on how much good CAM is doing.

We have yet to have a thread go over a thousand pages. The 'rona thread has potential, though.

Many years ago, a man that served under CAM told me that CAM was a tax haven/money laundering establishment for wealthy mennonites. After dealing with them on a professional level, I am left to wonder....

Start your own thread if you want.

[Josh]

138 pages long.

Would love to see a 1380 page long thread on how much good CAM is doing.

We have yet to have a thread go over a thousand pages. The 'rona thread has potential, though.

Many years ago, a man that served under CAM told me that CAM was a tax haven/money laundering establishment for wealthy mennonites. After dealing with them on a professional level, I am left to wonder....

Start your own thread if you want.

Tax havens and money laundering is not the same as a private charitable foundation, which virtually all rich people give to and take advantage of.

[Ken]

138 pages long.

Would love to see a 1380 page long thread on how much good CAM is doing.

We have yet to have a thread go over a thousand pages. The 'rona thread has potential, though.

Many years ago, a man that served under CAM told me that CAM was a tax haven/money laundering establishment for wealthy mennonites. After dealing with them on a professional level, I am left to wonder....

Start your own thread if you want.

Tax havens and money laundering is not the same as a private charitable foundation, which virtually all rich people give to and take advantage of.

I agree with Josh here. Charitable giving is not a tax haven or money laundering.

Tax havens or tax shelters are usually business investments that are structured to show a big paper loss in order to balance out business earnings. To cite one famous example, Trump structured his casinos and other business to show an aggregate loss of over $1.1 Billion which he then used for nearly a decade to cancel out future business income and pay no taxes. This is what that looks like: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... taxes.html

Charities can also be used for money laundering. Citing the Trump example again, the Trump Foundation was used as a tax shelter by the Trump family to launder funds by using the foundation to pay themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax-exempt income. For which they were prosecuted and paid a $2 million fine: https://apnews.com/article/us-news-dona ... 69f32876c5

Whatever you think of CAM, it is a legitimate charity that doesn’t play those sorts of games with its donors. If rich Mennos donate large sums of money to CAM in order to reduce their taxable income that is perfectly legit and no different from any other sort of charitable giving such as people who donate large sums of money to Ivy League universities and take the same tax deductions.

We can talk about whether charitable giving should be tax deductible in the first place. But that is a whole different conversation.

[Josh]

I can agree it overall is morally dubious how our country lets the rich set up lavish foundations that spend huge amounts of money, tax free. But all of the rich do it, and the tax code is written to strongly incentivise that.

I’m not even particularly rich but I get emails from the people whose bank stores my money letting me know they can set up a donor advised fund, letting me “give” money to wherever I wish whilst accruing significant tax benefits and avoiding things like capital gains tax. This is how the system works. The rich wield money and power, at lower tax rates than the labourer who is taxed 15.3% on his first dollar. The rich are taxed 15% on their gains - or 0%, with the right estate and “charitable” planning.

[Dan Z]

Tax havens and money laundering is not the same as a private charitable foundation, which virtually all rich people give to and take advantage of.

I agree with Josh here...

let's all just pause and live in this moment for a while...

[temporal1]

138 pages long.
Would love to see a 1380 page long thread on how much good CAM is doing.

We have yet to have a thread go over a thousand pages. The 'rona thread has potential, though.

Many years ago, a man that served under CAM told me that CAM was a tax haven/money laundering establishment for wealthy mennonites. After dealing with them on a professional level, I am left to wonder....

Start your own thread if you want.

Mike did it:

The good that CAM is doing / Anabaptist Theology
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4802