Does the Kingdom of God trump politics?

[Bootstrap]

I'm seeing various threads in which someone states a conservative political opinion, then questions the faith of anyone who disagrees with it. I see quite a bit of this, and it seems to imply that political opinions are the test of true Christianity.

Here is one example of how this plays out.

We may find out differently about "Trump is not for sale" after we see the Mueller report, Trump's tax returns and the result of other investigations. I'll wait on this one.

Liberal Mennonites find themselves in an odd pickle: they hate Trump, but he’s pulling out of wars, refusing to start new wars, and reducing aggressive military spending. Seems they’re showing their true colours, which is actually just “liberal”.

Donald Trump is not the acid test for true Christianity. That just needs to be said. And it's quite possible to disagree with Trump without hating him, be careful about throwing that hate word around.

When the world is fighting about politics, we don't have to slay our brethren or question their faith if they don't agree with us. I agree with Jim on this, I think it's best to let the courts and investigations figure out who is guilty and who is innocent. But I don't question the faith of someone who does not trust the Mueller investigation.

Here's an acid test for us: Can we seek first the Kingdom of God, beyond political opinions, embracing Christians who have various opinions about all kinds of things?

[KingdomBuilder]

There are a few groups of Christians who claim to be detached from politics... they all offer different twists on what would seem to be common ground.

-“Kingdom Christian” associates: borderline anarchists, usually very outspoken and opinionated, and definitely well-versed on matters

-CAs: Plenty seem very “in the know” with politics, but generally treat it lighter than the other two options, though some have enough of an opinion to go around...

-JWs: do not vote, but primarily preach “political neutrality” on the basis of evangelism and their theological worldview that makes government one of the “3 major evils” in the world


None of my sample sizes are incredible, but just my observation.

[Josh]

Here's an acid test for us: Can we seek first the Kingdom of God, beyond political opinions, embracing Christians who have various opinions about all kinds of things?

Sure can. Here’s an easy way to start: Stop creating political threads on MennoNet. And respect and listen to plain Anabaptists more who don’t vote or involve themselves in the political process. Talk about the President or queen or Prime Minister or whomever a lot less.

[Neoanabaptist]

I suppose that being "not of this world" has always been central to Mennonites.
But has the "coming kingdom" always been as central?
My impression (from European history) is that the "kingdom" idea became a central idea in the Protestant "Social Gospel" era around 1900, and well by its more radical representants which were not content with moderate reforms. And the "kingdom" idea was from the beginning only attractive, because it was a blend of Biblical promises and political hopes - a kind of Christian surrogate for the Marxist "Zukunftsstaat" (future government).
Would the idea of the "kingdom" attract anyone if people could not project their rather different wishes and - worse - claims on it?

If I tried to overcome political confrontation, I would not look for "kingdom". I would look for ideas like: incomplete knowledge, modesty, humility, abstainment (from claiming things).

[Valerie]

This is what was prophesied in Isiah 60 after the Coming of the Messiah:

…2For behold, darkness covers the earth, and thick darkness is over the peoples; but the LORD will rise upon you, and His glory will appear over you. 3Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn. 4Lift up your eyes and look around: They all gather and come to you; your sons will come from afar, and your daughters will be carried on the arm.…

It baffles me that while we realize there are 2 kingdoms the Scripture plainly reveals that it will not 'exclude' kings-

[silentreader]

This is what was prophesied in Isiah 60 after the Coming of the Messiah:

…2For behold, darkness covers the earth, and thick darkness is over the peoples; but the LORD will rise upon you, and His glory will appear over you. 3Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn. 4Lift up your eyes and look around: They all gather and come to you; your sons will come from afar, and your daughters will be carried on the arm.…

It baffles me that while we realize there are 2 kingdoms the Scripture plainly reveals that it will not 'exclude' kings-

Coming to salvation does not exclude kings...as individuals.

[steve-in-kville]

My official standing is this: either you play the game of politics or stay out of it. No halfway in between. If you refuse to vote on whatever grounds you think you have, you have no reason to complain or discuss politics. Period.

If you vote, or at least are registered, be my guest and discuss/complain at will. Sorry, but not sorry.

[MaxPC]

My official standing is this: either you play the game of politics or stay out of it. No halfway in between. If you refuse to vote on whatever grounds you think you have, you have no reason to complain or discuss politics. Period.

If you vote, or at least are registered, be my guest and discuss/complain at will. Sorry, but not sorry.

After a fashion I agree with you. BUT it is also incumbent upon Christians to be a light on the hill and to clearly teach on moral issues, voting or not voting. We cannot stop politicians from trying to legislate on moral issues to get voters; but we CAN teach what acts are moral and immoral according to the Bible. That is part and parcel of the Christian mission as the Apostles have done. They addressed behaviors that are destructive and immoral. If we are to call ourselves Christian and to be faithful disciples we MUST be CLEAR about moral teachings as the Apostles were in imitation of Jesus: in word and deed the Truth must be taught without equivocation, hemming and hawing and political sophistry.

It must be preached clearly that abortion at any stage is murder; that homosexuality is an abomination according to the Bible.

[steve-in-kville]

It must be preached clearly that abortion at any stage is murder; that homosexuality is an abomination according to the Bible.

I agree with you all the way. The point I am trying to make is the mennonites who refuse to vote and then turn around and bash whatever politicians are in power. I get the "vote on your knees" thing, I do. But if you refuse to vote and try to change things, shut your mouth already.

[Bootstrap]

Two Kingdom theology was one of the big things that drew me to the Mennonites. Both plain and non-plain Mennonites I knew agreed that politics was not the center of the universe, that the Kingdom of God was about the things Jesus taught, and neither political party stood for those things.

I think I've seen Mennonites become polarized and politicized in ways I never expected. Both on the left and the right. To me, this really eats at core values that drew me to the Mennonites. Actually, this is not what I encounter talking to people face to face, there's something about online interaction that draws it out.

I really couldn't imagine a Mennonite saying something like this:

Liberal Mennonites find themselves in an odd pickle: they hate Trump, but he’s pulling out of wars, refusing to start new wars, and reducing aggressive military spending. Seems they’re showing their true colours, which is actually just “liberal”.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone who lives less according to Mennonite values - plain or non-plain - than Donald Trump. Turning Donald Trump into the litmus test of true Christianity is bizarre. You can't do that and claim to be apolitical. Even if you don't vote. I'd like to think that non-voting Christians are whole lot less politically polarized than the rest of the world. I'm guessing they probably are, in general, but what I see on MN and on Facebook often does not look like that.

I'm happy to let the courts and the Mueller investigation decide the questions about Trump. It's not our jurisdiction. We don't have the facts. I don't think Christians should slay each other over these questions.

I agree that we need to hold the line on abortion and homosexuality, but these are not the only interesting sins.