Dualism - What is it and how dualistic are you?

[Dan Z]

In a discussion in the thread on Leisure, Recreation, Amusement and Sport, Jazzman made the following salient observation:

I think this question and where you land regarding it or live regarding it, will largely be determined somewhat by how dualistic your conception of Christianity and/or Kingdom of God is. The more you divide life/earthly life into "spiritual" (good, religious activities mentioned in Scripture) and worldly/earthly (bad...most everything not "religious - virtuous - etc" in nature or invisible/"spiritual") then most anything that is recreational/leisurely/fun/sports will fall in the BAD category... Personally, I'm pretty anti-dualism and so I'm pretty liberal in this area. But I'll admit that some of that may be a reaction to what I grew up with and what Dan describes here...

It can invite unnecessary guilt, judgement, control, and legalism, especially in relationship to activities that are not deemed spiritual enough, or are not easily assigned an overt Kingdom motivation (like Valerie, I too have seen this abuse in action, and the results can be joyless and oppressive - which IMO bears a negative witness for the Kingdom).

What is Dualism in the Anabaptist context?

[POLL] Using Jazzman's framework, how dualistic are you on a scale of 1-5?

Why do you believe the way you do?

[Neto]

In my past Bible college experience, the word was used in several ways. Others will probably be able to add others as well.)
1. The belief that there are two forces in the universe locked in an eternal battle, good, and evil, and that they are of more or less equal power.
2. Seeing the human person as composed of two parts, the physical, and the spiritual. (I think that Dichotomism vs trichotomism are in one sense subsets of dualism, although others would classify them as three 'equal-level options'.)
3. Regarding personal activity as separated into spiritual morality vs physical morality, with the oft included idea that only the spiritual morality matters. A perhaps very moderate form of this is where a person sees their daily (business) life as largely separate from their personal spiritual life, or, in more anthropological terms, the idea that spiritual forces do not interfere with natural law (as opposed to seeing all of life in very wholistic terms, where everything in life, all experiences are seen in the context of the actions of spiritual forces interacting in the physical world.

Not being sure how the term is being used here, I didn't respond to the 'survey'. I will say, however, that I view the world wholistically, and believe that God acts and 'interferes', if you will, in every event of our lives. I also believe that a human being cannot be divided into a spiritual being and a physical being. We are 'living souls', as the Scripture states, and the physical body is a part of that. Else why would the resurrection be necessary, and why would Paul have said that "we do not desire to be 'unclothed' (i.e., w/o bodies), but to be clothed upon, transformed into physical beings like Christ, the 'firstfruit of the resurrection'?
[Disclaimer: Bible college & my anthropology training was a LOOONG time ago, and sometimes I cannot even remember what I did yesterday, so please correct me where corrections are in order.]

[Wade]

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Denying self and being fully submitted to the Father's will in all things seems pretty reasonable if we follow Christ.

[Valerie]

I'm in a learning position in this area- having come from Pentecostal/Evangelical background, and seeking and observing Anabaptists for over a decade, this term is new to me, even having been introduced to its application by Anabaptists- I get it- wrestling with it actually. Where I come from, it may be said that o e is "sold out" or "on fire" for the Lord to the point that their life serving God leaves little time for self interest or "fun". I grew up where having " fun" was considered healthy & important- trying to determine that line of balance Scripturally can be burdensome if we feel God is a hard taskmaster that doesn't want us to enjoy things He's created for our pleasure- that gives Him glory. Face it, He knows our heart in this, we need to approach Him with our desire to please Him- I know people I hold in high esteem for their servants heart & yet can have a healthy good time enjoying family, friends, solitude, in nature or whatever- dualism. It really isn't a word used in my life or background of faith. Seeing others try to be the Holy Spirit in speaking into others lives in these matters has revealed a spirit at times I'm not sure is Holy

[Wade]

I wish I had a way of sharing it to others but I'm not sure it is possible. I used to do extreme snowmobiling with some of the top riders in the world... You want to talk about fun and adrenaline rush!!! But some how going to a nursing home service puts a joy in my heart that that rush of sidehilling over a thousand foot cliff never could even come close to. Serving in the name of Christ is so much more exciting and fulfilling.
Our family seems not "fun" to some but we get comments often by people looking in amazement saying how calm and happy our children are... We are always having fun.

[Josh]

I wish I had a way of sharing it to others but I'm not sure it is possible. I used to do extreme snowmobiling with some of the top riders in the world... You want to talk about fun and adrenaline rush!!! But some how going to a nursing home service puts a joy in my heart that that rush of sidehilling over a thousand foot cliff never could even come close to. Serving in the name of Christ is so much more exciting and fulfilling.
Our family seems not "fun" to some but we get comments often by people looking in amazement saying how calm and happy our children are... We are always having fun.

Well, extreme snowmobiling might be the only way to build relationships and share the kingdom with some of those top riders. Jesus ate and drank with prostitutes, tax gatherers, and swindlers. Presumably he did so to fulfill his father’s mission, not just to enjoy a nice meal and drinks with some laughter.

[Wade]

I wish I had a way of sharing it to others but I'm not sure it is possible. I used to do extreme snowmobiling with some of the top riders in the world... You want to talk about fun and adrenaline rush!!! But some how going to a nursing home service puts a joy in my heart that that rush of sidehilling over a thousand foot cliff never could even come close to. Serving in the name of Christ is so much more exciting and fulfilling.
Our family seems not "fun" to some but we get comments often by people looking in amazement saying how calm and happy our children are... We are always having fun.

Well, extreme snowmobiling might be the only way to build relationships and share the kingdom with some of those top riders. Jesus ate and drank with prostitutes, tax gatherers, and swindlers. Presumably he did so to fulfill his father’s mission, not just to enjoy a nice meal and drinks with some laughter.

Interestingly, I followed a convoy of trucks with sleds this morning up the valley towards where I grew and know the mountains very well. However I turned off before to a new believers place to give him a ride for fellowship.

My friend Dan Davidoff (the Krazy Canadian) said he was a Christian. Other than him being the first one to show up when someone needed help I didn't see the kingdom being built among the other sledders regrettably. Unfortunately, he lost his life a couple years ago too, in an avalanche...

[Wade]

I wish I had a way of sharing it to others but I'm not sure it is possible. I used to do extreme snowmobiling with some of the top riders in the world... You want to talk about fun and adrenaline rush!!! But some how going to a nursing home service puts a joy in my heart that that rush of sidehilling over a thousand foot cliff never could even come close to. Serving in the name of Christ is so much more exciting and fulfilling.
Our family seems not "fun" to some but we get comments often by people looking in amazement saying how calm and happy our children are... We are always having fun.

And to be fair and balanced...
Today we did lots of spiritual things but,
I also pushed a couple of our children in their sleighs down the hill.
Worked on flooding the ice rink in the back yard.
Played checkers with one of my daughters.
Sat in the rocking chair with our two year old watching pictures flash up on the screen saver and talked with him.
Turned the chicken eggs in our homemade incubator.
Among other things...

[steve-in-kville]

[And to be fair and balanced...

I agree with Wade 100%. After coming out of a not-so ideal church environment, almost throwing it all away, learning to forgive people who will never be sorry, I've learned (still learning?) about life balance. My priorities have shifted a lot in the past year or so. What was important 3 years ago may not even be on the radar now.

[Hats Off]

I wish I had a way of sharing it to others but I'm not sure it is possible. I used to do extreme snowmobiling with some of the top riders in the world... You want to talk about fun and adrenaline rush!!! But some how going to a nursing home service puts a joy in my heart that that rush of sidehilling over a thousand foot cliff never could even come close to. Serving in the name of Christ is so much more exciting and fulfilling.
Our family seems not "fun" to some but we get comments often by people looking in amazement saying how calm and happy our children are... We are always having fun.

Yea! I find just liking this isn't enough!