Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

[RZehr]

What is there for the popular/high status family to do?
What is there to do as a church?

[Ernie]

What is there for the popular/high status family to do?
What is there to do as a church?

Are you asking what the high status family and church should do to help do away with the caste system?

Same as in India.

Higher class needs to start hanging out with the lower class whenever there is a choice to hang out with their own class.

Everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of classes of people and look for ways to raise up the lowly. The privileged need to take steps down... until there are no classes.

Isaiah predicted: (40:3-4)

A voice of one calling: “In the wilderness prepare the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain.
And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all people will see it together.”

John the Baptist announced the ushering in of a Kingdom that would fulfill this prophecy... (Luke 3)

A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord;
make straight paths for Him. Every valley shall be filled in, and every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked ways shall be made straight, and the rough ways smooth. And all mankind will see God’s salvation.’

It is up to the church to make this Kingdom vision a reality. Our neighbors will not see this glory revealed until we as a church make it happen.

John D. Martin is the one that introduced me to this interpretation/application. He applied it in a financial sense. I think there is a financial component as well as a social component.

Matthew Milioni writes:
There is a difference between privilege and incarnational empathy. When “privilege” encounters someone with struggles or someone different it says, “if you were like me… then…”. Instead, empathy says, “What is it like to be you?” This is I believe deep at the heart of Jesus’ incarnation. If I were to assess what may be amiss in many conservative Christian groups, I would say it is this heart of empathy.”

[DrWojo]

Doesn’t the recognition of a Pecking order and social standing/status admit to showing partiality, and should it have any place given to it within the body of Christ?

[RZehr]

Maybe we need to start by asking what causes social orders?

[RZehr]

Is social order more or less pronounced the more conservative or liberal the Mennonite church is? Or is there really no connection?

[DrWojo]

Maybe we need to start by asking what causes social orders?

I’ll propose it must stem from human nature, at least partly, because it can be found within churches and civic groups alike.

[RZehr]

I suppose it is a stretch to call it a caste system. We don’t believe in reincarnation as do the Hindus. And in my opinion the high status people can be with whoever and it doesn’t seem to make much discernible difference in how others think. Mother Teresa as a Mennonite would be regarded as high status. People think what they will. Consider the gurus of the Anabaptist intentionalist movement. Is John D Martin high status? Yes. Is Matthew Millioni high status? Probably. Does he cloister himself off from others? Maybe if he is swamped, but I know him, and it isn’t because of high personal self regard.

What prompted my question was a podcast I found yesterday. The podcast isn’t really worthwhile on the whole so I won’t say the name. But I listened to 3 episodes and one thing that came up repeatedly in each of those, was the idea that, specifically in Eastern Pennsylvania Conservative Mennonite Conference, who you were or who your family was made significant differences.
I’ve heard over the years that my family is considered influential in our churches as well.

[DrWojo]

I suppose it is a stretch to call it a caste system. We don’t believe in reincarnation as do the Hindus. And in my opinion the high status people can be with whoever and it doesn’t seem to make much discernible difference in how others think. Mother Teresa as a Mennonite would be regarded as high status. People think what they will. Consider the gurus of the Anabaptist intentionalist movement. Is John D Martin high status? Yes. Is Matthew Millioni high status? Probably. Does he cloister himself off from others? Maybe if he is swamped, but I know him, and it isn’t because of high personal self regard.

What prompted my question was a podcast I found yesterday. The podcast isn’t really worthwhile on the whole so I won’t say the name. But I listened to 3 episodes and one thing that came up repeatedly in each of those, was the idea that, specifically in Eastern Pennsylvania Conservative Mennonite Conference, who you were or who your family was made significant differences.
I’ve heard over the years that my family is considered influential in our churches as well.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree that is the truth. IMHO it has brought far more reproach than any amount of virtue and is why I questioned the value of giving it any place in a true church of God.

[Josh]

Well, nobody knows my last name, my parents aren’t Mennonite, my dad has a prior marriage, and so do I. If there is a “pecking order” I guess I’m dead last on it.

But I feel a very warm brotherhood in my church family, no matter where I go. I seem to be an “honorary member” of one or two family clans in particular. It makes me think of Psalm 68, which I read last night with another single person who sometimes feels lonely or low on the “pecking order”. That chapter is such an encouragement.

[steve-in-kville]

Maybe we need to start by asking what causes social orders?

Every organization has a pecking order. The company I work for does. Churches do. Volunteer fire companies/EMS do.

In our area (Lancaster/Lebanon/Berks county), I'd venture to say 80% is money/wealth influenced, the other 20% is pedigree.

Case in point: the Mennonite church we were attending was a perfect example of this. Around the same time there were two situations of moral failings. One man would be considered "lower class." The other was quite wealthy, parents were wealthy, older brother was ordained in the same conference, etc. The wealthy man made a half-hearted confession before communion, the other lost his membership for the rest of his life.

Tell me how that works?