Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
YorkandAdams
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by YorkandAdams »

cmbl wrote:I guess I identified "no youth groups" with the principle of expecting young people to be serious-minded and responsible. But if "no youth groups" encourages cliques, to what extent do Eastern's cliques undermine this principle? Are the popular cliques always liberal?
Alright, lets clear this up a little. There is a difference between a clique and a friend group. In these churches, almost all the youth have a friend group of some sort. Obviously some more than others. Whether it is the guys you went to grade school with or the ones you happened to make at bible school, these friend groups usually form based on proximity. The barrier to entry into these friend groups is low. The activities that these friend groups participate in are largely shaped by how conservative the youth’s family is within the church. Normal activities for a friend group are calling each other in the evenings, hanging out at singings, maybe going out to eat, etc. Some friend groups would not go out to eat, others might go on a weekend camping trip (the range is fairly broad). Another general rule of thumb is that genders do not mix when it is simply a friend group.

Now cliques are another story. I would describe a clique as a group of people (youth in this case) who form a fairly closed off friend group. While proximity is somewhat important, it is one’s reputation which determines if you can be a part of the clique. Every clique which I have seen in these circles is formed by the most liberal youth. Most in cliques would have smartphones, listen to music, watch videos, be more comfortable interacting with the opposite gender, etc. The ministry will openly preach against these things, but the youth are going to be youth. From my observations, most of these youth eventually leave and join a “defector” church. In these settings, technology is not as limited, gender interaction is not as strict, ministerial power is weaker, youth groups are allowed, etc.

As to how much eastern is effected by cliques, it is up for debate. Some argue that the youth in cliques were going to leave anyway, so it did not impact the retention rate. Others contest that they cause "deviant" behavior. If you look at the number of youth who leave eastern and other ultra-conservative groups, you can see that the number is significantly larger than churches "downstream". It is partly for this reason that I highly doubt cliques are what is causing the issue of youth leaving.

On a similar matter, from my experience, I have found that cliques form no matter how conservative the church. I believe that churches are best off when they encourage youth groups and church-sponsored activities. Youth groups help break down the barriers between the most conservative and most liberal within the church. It is not a perfect system, but it is probably the best system when it comes to inclusion and accountability.
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RZehr
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by RZehr »

YorkandAdams wrote: I believe that churches are best off when they encourage youth groups and church-sponsored activities. Youth groups help break down the barriers between the most conservative and most liberal within the church. It is not a perfect system, but it is probably the best system when it comes to inclusion and accountability.
I have come to think this as well.

I think these years are crucial social development years, and play an big part in how we perceive our own social standing in the years to come. And not only perceive ourselves, but where we are perceived by others.
I was told recently that a certain 40+ year old lady still grapples with how she was mistreated in her high school/youth years by others. Today if someone is rude or unkind, she associates it with her unpopularity in her youth. Most of who her current social circle is now, has completely changed from those years, so it isn't the bullys who mistreated her back then.
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Admiral Acbon
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

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RZehr wrote:I was told recently that a certain 40+ year old lady still grapples with how she was mistreated in her high school/youth years by others. Today if someone is rude or unkind, she associates it with her unpopularity in her youth. Most of who her current social circle is now, has completely changed from those years, so it isn't the bullys who mistreated her back then.
I have a 60ish (+/- a few) aunt with much the same problem. :(
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RZehr
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by RZehr »

Admiral Acbon wrote:
RZehr wrote:I was told recently that a certain 40+ year old lady still grapples with how she was mistreated in her high school/youth years by others. Today if someone is rude or unkind, she associates it with her unpopularity in her youth. Most of who her current social circle is now, has completely changed from those years, so it isn't the bullys who mistreated her back then.
I have a 60ish (+/- a few) aunt with much the same problem. :(
It is very regretful that these things happen. I hate the thought that my little 8 year old girl would suffer mistreatment in her youth and for the rest of her life have feelings of floccinaucinihilipilification.

just learned that fun word today. Not 100% certain I used it right. If not, then substitute it for the word inadequacy.
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Ernie
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by Ernie »

YorkandAdams wrote:I believe that churches are best off when they encourage youth groups and church-sponsored activities. Youth groups help break down the barriers between the most conservative and most liberal within the church. It is not a perfect system, but it is probably the best system when it comes to inclusion and accountability.
I think a church full of parents who require their children to include everyone in youth activities is and even better system.
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by GaryK »

Ernie wrote:
YorkandAdams wrote:I believe that churches are best off when they encourage youth groups and church-sponsored activities. Youth groups help break down the barriers between the most conservative and most liberal within the church. It is not a perfect system, but it is probably the best system when it comes to inclusion and accountability.
I think a church full of parents who require their children to include everyone in youth activities is and even better system.
Amen!
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by steve-in-kville »

Ernie wrote:
YorkandAdams wrote:I believe that churches are best off when they encourage youth groups and church-sponsored activities. Youth groups help break down the barriers between the most conservative and most liberal within the church. It is not a perfect system, but it is probably the best system when it comes to inclusion and accountability.
I think a church full of parents who require their children to include everyone in youth activities is and even better system.
I agree with this to a point. But lets not forget where our youth get their social habits: the parents. I can tell what kind of supper table conversations take place by the children's comments towards other people, be it social status, race and/or financial success.
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by Ernie »

YorkandAdams wrote:If you look at the number of youth who leave eastern and other ultra-conservative groups, you can see that the number is significantly larger than churches "downstream".
This statement makes me curious as the growth percentages the last 20 years do not reflect this. Look at the percentage figures underneath ultra's, intermediates, and moderates, in this article.

https://www.plainnews.org/wp-content/up ... -01-11.pdf
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by steve-in-kville »

I printed that out and read about 2/3 of it so far. Very well done.
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Re: Pecking order, social standing and status within Plain Mennonites

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Could birthrate have anything to do with this? If you have that data a more through analysis could be made. Whole churches changing affiliation could be another factor.

Compare this to the mainline liberal Protestant groups and all of these numbers look good.

J.M.
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