The Trinity

[Josh]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

Could you explain why this position Jesus allegedly taught the apostles failed to be written down anywhere, and wasn’t solidified by the church until the 400s at the Council of Chalcedon?

[Soloist]

Could you explain why this position Jesus allegedly taught the apostles failed to be written down anywhere, and wasn’t solidified by the church until the 400s at the Council of Chalcedon?

The word is “oral tradition” has about as much accuracy as the Quran.

[Valerie]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

Could you explain why this position Jesus allegedly taught the apostles failed to be written down anywhere, and wasn’t solidified by the church until the 400s at the Council of Chalcedon?

So you think they all of a sudden made it up??
And yes things were taught "orally" as well as written down.

2 Thessalonians 2:15,:
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions you were taught whether by word or our epistle"

So obviously there were oral teachings, that IS Scriptural, not all was written down.

Jesus spent 40 days teaching the Apostles deeper truths after He rose from the dead. Do you think they were all sitting around looking at each other those 40 days?
Obviously there was a lot said that was not written down and He expounded to them that is obviously why they had the understanding to start Churches world wide and were given instruction to confront ,& refute heresy.

I'm sorry, they were not waiting for the 16th century forward to teach what the Trinity teaches- obviously protestantism (including Anabaptists) vary in their interpretations.

Anabaptism has their own man made doctrines so I'm not sure why you take issue with the early church's mandate to refute heresy- they were TOLD TO

[Valerie]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

Could you explain why this position Jesus allegedly taught the apostles failed to be written down anywhere, and wasn’t solidified by the church until the 400s at the Council of Chalcedon?

The short answer- The Church was started orally not by the New Testament. The "Church" was the pillar and ground of the Truth (1 Timothy 3:15)
Heresy was used by Satan to disrupt ,& divide the Church so they put in "words" to create peace. Just look where we are today- Anabaptists themselves are extremely sected.

[Josh]

So you think they all of a sudden made it up??

Yes. The ecumenical councils were well documented. Basically the intellectuals got together and pontificated what they thought the "truth" was.

There was often not agreement either - hence the split with the Church of the East, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Chalcedonian churches (which are now Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant).

Anabaptism has their own man made doctrines so I'm not sure why you take issue with the early church's mandate to refute heresy- they were TOLD TO

It really doesn't - Anabaptists try to follow the New Testament. We do sometimes have a "man made" tradition, but we don't pretend this was some secret oral tradition handed down by Jesus. We try to just live out what is in the NT.

[gcdonner]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

So you are of those who claim "my truth"? Jesus never taught "trinity", but in fact it would be more correct to say that he did teach "oneness" since he specifically said, "I and my Father are one." However, that is not the same as what the oneness doctrine teaches...
You only affirmed what I stated, that it was men who coined the phrase "trinity" and not God himself.

[Josh]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

So you are of those who claim "my truth"? Jesus never taught "trinity", but in fact it would be more correct to say that he did teach "oneness" since he specifically said, "I and my Father are one." However, that is not the same as what the oneness doctrine teaches...
You only affirmed what I stated, that it was men who coined the phrase "trinity" and not God himself.

Of note is that none of the church fathers who promoted the ideas of the trinity were willing to canonise these into scripture. They decided what books go into the New Testament, and didn't admit these extra documents that certainly existed by that time.

Whilst I believe in a Chalcedonian view of the Trinity, I also don't consider this necessarily an absolute as found in scripture, nor necessary for salvation or even for effective Christian living.

[gcdonner]

Valerie stated:

The "Church" was the pillar and ground of the Truth (1 Timothy 3:15)

This is correct except that you use it to say that the church has the authority to create truth. It does not, it is the support and foundation of the truth. Truth is not now nor ever has been the arena for the church to define. Jesus himself is the truth, we did not, do not and never will create him nor define him, only express his living presence within his body.
There are a lot of people who like to quote the above passage as support for their particular ideas.

[RZehr]

I believe Jesus taught it correctly to His Apostles who then passed down the understanding. Then the Church encountered heresies ,(Biblical term who's is addressed seriously in the Bible) therefore the Church took seriously to address heresy and through the ages we have become very "new age" in saying "your truth" and "my truth" in Christian interpretation. That's just where we are today. I do think Jesus taught it correctly and He didn't use the word Trinity but that word gave meaning to what He did teach those He sent to start Churches. The word was used very early.

So you are of those who claim "my truth"? Jesus never taught "trinity", but in fact it would be more correct to say that he did teach "oneness" since he specifically said, "I and my Father are one." However, that is not the same as what the oneness doctrine teaches...
You only affirmed what I stated, that it was men who coined the phrase "trinity" and not God himself.

Of note is that none of the church fathers who promoted the ideas of the trinity were willing to canonise these into scripture. They decided what books go into the New Testament, and didn't admit these extra documents that certainly existed by that time.

Whilst I believe in a Chalcedonian view of the Trinity, I also don't consider this necessarily an absolute as found in scripture, nor necessary for salvation or even for effective Christian living.

What is the Chalcedonian view of the Trinity?

[Josh]

What is the Chalcedonian view of the Trinity?

The one that you and I have, or at least we should, if we follow your statement of faith and Bible Doctrines and Practice.

Both Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants have the Chalcedonian view. EOs have a very slight tweak vs. Catholics/Protestants that I'm not sure I could fully explain, but it led to a giant church split in 1054.

Church of the East has a different position and Oriental Orthodoxy has yet another position. I'm not sure I could adequately explain the differences, either, but it was enough for serious church splits in the 300s...

The Chalcedonian doctrine of the Hypostatic Union states that Jesus Christ has two natures, divine and human, possessing a complete human nature while remaining one divine hypostasis. It asserts that the natures are unmixed and unconfused, with the human nature of Christ being assumed at the incarnation without any change to the divine nature. It also states that while Jesus Christ has assumed a true human nature, body and soul, which shall remain hypostatically united to his divine nature for all of eternity, he is nevertheless not a human person, as human personhood would imply a second created hypostasis existing within Jesus Christ and violating the unity of the God-man.