The Trinity

[Soloist]

I’ve never been comfortable with the Trinitarian view. I’m not saying it’s wrong but I don’t feel that our efforts to define it and kill others who think differently (Catholics/Orthodox) or put them out of the church is very fitting.
Clearly from Scripture one can claim many things but there is more then 1 or even 2 views that could describe it. We cannot know though and the first council honestly was a travesty resulting in persecution back and forth on both sides.

Then later they had to further define the relationship of the Holy Spirit.
These councils did not produce more holiness or even people knowing God closer.

[Neto]

What is the Chalcedonian view of the Trinity?

The one that you and I have, or at least we should, if we follow your statement of faith and Bible Doctrines and Practice.

Both Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants have the Chalcedonian view. EOs have a very slight tweak vs. Catholics/Protestants that I'm not sure I could fully explain, but it led to a giant church split in 1054.

Church of the East has a different position and Oriental Orthodoxy has yet another position. I'm not sure I could adequately explain the differences, either, but it was enough for serious church splits in the 300s...

The Chalcedonian doctrine of the Hypostatic Union states that Jesus Christ has two natures, divine and human, possessing a complete human nature while remaining one divine hypostasis. It asserts that the natures are unmixed and unconfused, with the human nature of Christ being assumed at the incarnation without any change to the divine nature. It also states that while Jesus Christ has assumed a true human nature, body and soul, which shall remain hypostatically united to his divine nature for all of eternity, he is nevertheless not a human person, as human personhood would imply a second created hypostasis existing within Jesus Christ and violating the unity of the God-man.

I could not endorse this view, because in my understanding, it goes beyond Scripture. "The WORD became flesh." I understand that to mean 'human."
HOWEVER, as you and others have stated, I don't think it is something that we should 'fight about", nor is it something that should result in ostracization of one part of the Body of Christ by another part, or person. But I do think that there are dangers in holding to any doctrine that cannot be clearly shown from Scripture. Perhaps not as a direct result of a particular doctrine, in that same area of thought, but more so in a subtle attitude shift.

[RZehr]

I’ve never been comfortable with the Trinitarian view. I’m not saying it’s wrong but I don’t feel that our efforts to define it and kill others who think differently (Catholics/Orthodox) or put them out of the church is very fitting.
Clearly from Scripture one can claim many things but there is more then 1 or even 2 views that could describe it. We cannot know though and the first council honestly was a travesty resulting in persecution back and forth on both sides.

Then later they had to further define the relationship of the Holy Spirit.
These councils did not produce more holiness or even people knowing God closer.

What a recipe for success. A bunch of powerful men who are not led by or filled with the Holy Ghost, defining what the relationship between the Holy Ghost and God is. And then fighting and killing about it.

[Ken]

Honest question.

How does one's view of the Trinity affect how one lives one's life as a Christian and for that matter, how churches are organized and structured? Other than perhaps some specific language used in church services?

Obviously nontrinitarian denominations like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, and Oneness Pentecostals are quite a bit different from other mainstream Trinitarian denominations. But I don't think it is their rejection of the Trinity that actually makes them different. Or is it?

[Neto]

Honest question.

How does one's view of the Trinity affect how one lives one's life as a Christian and for that matter, how churches are organized and structured? Other than perhaps some specific language used in church services?
....

In my thinking, it influences how far we go in seeking unity with other parts of the Body. Jesus says that He and the Father are One. And He prays that we will be one, as He & the Father are one. Then "we" make up a doctrine that makes the oneness he was talking about something so special that we would have to be a "Theistic Multiplicity" to imagine how we could carry out His plan for us. In so doing, we obscure His desire for us, and dismiss the life He was wanting to see in our lives together. (I DO, by the way, believe that God is ONE. It is a mystery.)

[Sudsy]

For anyone not familiar with the Oneness understanding, this was my experience -

I married a Oneness Pentecostal preacher's daughter and coming from a Trinity believing Pentecostal group, we had some big battles when we were dating over this issue. The main scripture they use is from what Peter said in Acts 2:38,39 -

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

This text they said was also supported by what Jesus told His disciples to do - Matthew 28:19 -

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

From these two scriptures they developed these interpretations that they believed was Peter's understanding also -

1) Water baptism (immersion) is essential to salvation - 'for the forgiveness of your sins'
2) Baptize in Jesus name (as that is the name being referred to in Matthew 28:19 - Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not names)
3) The gift of the Holy Spirit is evident in you by speaking in an unknown tongue and evidence that you are saved

In my case, they tried hard to convince me that I needed to be re-baptized in Jesus name even though I already had spoken in tongues. I refused and they tried to break up our dating and their daughter left home and we married. But even at the marriage ceremony, as a last minute stand, her father tried to get the trinitarian Pentecostal minister to marry us in Jesus name but he refused and so her father just said it out loud as the minister married us in the trinitarian terminology.

I have witnessed and know some fine Christians in the Oneness Pentecostal churches and don't see where God is turning His back on them for their understandings of who He is. I even enjoy some fellowship with Conservative Anabaptists and their various screwed up understandings of scripture. Just kidding, there are, imo, some fine CAs also.

[MaxPC]

What a recipe for success. A bunch of powerful men who are not led by or filled with the Holy Ghost, defining what the relationship between the Holy Ghost and God is. And then fighting and killing about it.

One of the many examples of the human paradox.

[RZehr]

For anyone not familiar with the Oneness understanding, this was my experience -

I married a Oneness Pentecostal preacher's daughter and coming from a Trinity believing Pentecostal group, we had some big battles when we were dating over this issue. The main scripture they use is from what Peter said in Acts 2:38,39 -

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

This text they said was also supported by what Jesus told His disciples to do - Matthew 28:19 -

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

From these two scriptures they developed these interpretations that they believed was Peter's understanding also -

1) Water baptism (immersion) is essential to salvation - 'for the forgiveness of your sins'
2) Baptize in Jesus name (as that is the name being referred to in Matthew 28:19 - Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not names)
3) The gift of the Holy Spirit is evident in you by speaking in an unknown tongue and evidence that you are saved

In my case, they tried hard to convince me that I needed to be re-baptized in Jesus name even though I already had spoken in tongues. I refused and they tried to break up our dating and their daughter left home and we married. But even at the marriage ceremony, as a last minute stand, her father tried to get the trinitarian Pentecostal minister to marry us in Jesus name but he refused and so her father just said it out loud as the minister married us in the trinitarian terminology.

I have witnessed and know some fine Christians in the Oneness Pentecostal churches and don't see where God is turning His back on them for their understandings of who He is. I even enjoy some fellowship with Conservative Anabaptists and their various screwed up understandings of scripture. Just kidding, there are, imo, some fine CAs also.

Did that marriage end in divorce?

[Soloist]

What a recipe for success. A bunch of powerful men who are not led by or filled with the Holy Ghost, defining what the relationship between the Holy Ghost and God is. And then fighting and killing about it.

One of the many examples of the human paradox.

Jas 3:9  Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Jas 3:10  Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Jas 3:11  Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Jas 3:12  Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

[Sudsy]

For anyone not familiar with the Oneness understanding, this was my experience -

I married a Oneness Pentecostal preacher's daughter and coming from a Trinity believing Pentecostal group, we had some big battles when we were dating over this issue. The main scripture they use is from what Peter said in Acts 2:38,39 -

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

This text they said was also supported by what Jesus told His disciples to do - Matthew 28:19 -

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

From these two scriptures they developed these interpretations that they believed was Peter's understanding also -

1) Water baptism (immersion) is essential to salvation - 'for the forgiveness of your sins'
2) Baptize in Jesus name (as that is the name being referred to in Matthew 28:19 - Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not names)
3) The gift of the Holy Spirit is evident in you by speaking in an unknown tongue and evidence that you are saved

In my case, they tried hard to convince me that I needed to be re-baptized in Jesus name even though I already had spoken in tongues. I refused and they tried to break up our dating and their daughter left home and we married. But even at the marriage ceremony, as a last minute stand, her father tried to get the trinitarian Pentecostal minister to marry us in Jesus name but he refused and so her father just said it out loud as the minister married us in the trinitarian terminology.

I have witnessed and know some fine Christians in the Oneness Pentecostal churches and don't see where God is turning His back on them for their understandings of who He is. I even enjoy some fellowship with Conservative Anabaptists and their various screwed up understandings of scripture. Just kidding, there are, imo, some fine CAs also.

Did that marriage end in divorce?

Yes. My wife later said that she had used me as an escape from her home situation and her father's beliefs. Are you asking that question to make some kind of point or just curious ?