Where do you fit?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective

What are you?

 
Total votes: 0

lesterb
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by lesterb »

Let me reiterate that I have no intention of taking a pot shot at anyone. Nor is this a particularly scientific poll. But I think it is helpful to see where people see themselves as fitting in. I'm fine with people saying "this is where I fit personally, even though my church would fit a different category."

Cory's designations are more precise, but they describe groups. I'm more interested in where you fit as a person.

SusanAnn, I voted number 1, just for your information. I'm not as clothing oriented as some number 1's would be, but appearance is still the way that the plainer groups are identified the easiest. Also the no radio or tv, radio but no tv, and tv and radio groups are traditional divisions.

The internet has blurred some of this a little and the plainer groups could be subdivided into no internet or email, no internet except email (and some internet use at the library on occasion), and filtered or limited access internet.
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Soloist
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by Soloist »

I don't really fit in any category that well, being as I hold values that would conflict or be strange to some groups.
My wife head covers, and while we use a Mennonite veil (mostly), its considerably larger than the others in our area.
I would lean towards the head is to be covered, but I don't want to look Muslim. I prefer my wife wears cape dresses out of a personal preference but I see that it can be less modest with some ways the ladies wear it, for instance the elastic waistband. I also like it when the sleeves go past the elbow. It really depends on the situation, she would never want to visit her family in one for fear of the witnessing impact for instance and she especially would not want to wear an eastern head covering.
Myself I would prefer shirts that cover the waist and a bit lower and I only tuck in the undershirt. Long sleeves, short hair on me. Wife is flip flopping on uncut, doesn't really hold a conviction but sees enough people with it that she is wondering.
No shorts, only long pants. I find that plain coats are horridly expensive and I tend to stand against that, cape dresses are very cheap used. I think suspenders are weird but might wear them if asked. Oh, dress should be below knee when sitting. I like it to be down to the ankle but its normally not very practical, we have very poor sewing skills and my wife is really tall.

I say TV and movies are almost always bad (yet to find a good one...) but I struggle with star wars and star trek and wanting to watch them ( I saw the last one and there were things that bothered my conscience) I can honestly say I shouldn't watch them... but... easier said sometimes. We have regretted letting our children watch some early children education shows due to things that have popped up in them.

Radio seems to have little to nothing redeeming on it in my personal opinion but CD players are helpful.

Musical instruments I personally have no problem with from a Biblical view, but I think at this point other than classical music I think not having them in my life is helpful. I think Churches can make their decision on this on either side and still follow God.

Computers are a particular struggle for myself and my wife struggles with smart phones... I've been on the computer from a very young age and it’s a real challenge to limit its use. I see that having a church stance against Internet isn't bad, but I think that there should be exceptions based on career choices and there should be a church computer for member use for banking/e-mail.
Alcohol isn't sinful to consume but I would question why waste the money on it (ice cream too) Drunkenness is sinful
Other than those sort of things, I think we should be grouped more on doctrines of belief and such rather than practice.

I personally believe that most modes of baptism are valid but think immersion is best.
Jesus is a God but I would be confused as to if He is The God. All authority has been given to Him, but I'm not sure on the Trinity. I don't think that one view is perfect and I think its beyond our knowledge.
I think Jesus claimed the I AM statement, but is Jesus the "Word of God" meaning God's words? or a created being when God spoke? or Some strange thing I don't understand... (don't judge me I'm just confused)
I agree with Bercot on the Love-Faith-Obedience relationship but I struggle with faith.
Communion should be done often but doesn't have to be. (I would prefer a weekly meal with communion)
I think that people with defiant sin should not be permitted to partake and I tend to lean to a member only stance since I feel like its less judgmental then say a close communion. I'm opposed to open communion since I think we are called to exclude those in open sin.
All who profess Jesus as Lord I would call a Christian until they prove by practice otherwise.
I believe in a view that homosexuality or any of the LGBT... is sin. Anyone living in that lifestyle is going to hell. Abortion is sin in all cases, but I believe its personal choice when it might take your life to carry to term or a tubal pregnancy. All forms of birth control for women are sinful and I stand quite strongly on this after we did birth control and lost a 15 week child because of it. I’m excluding two very rare forms of female birth control that are just not used. I’m not sure on male birth control, I tend to lean quiverfull, but I don’t judge anyone and my wife couldn't handle that. Likewise
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Under these things I still come short, I still get angry, I’m envious of people who have a good job, but I try to fight these things. I believe it’s a lifestyle choice. Do we do our best to walk by the Spirit? Or live life how we want?
An example, I used to live in sexual sin back before I called Jesus Lord. (Before I just called Him fire insurance) I knew I was sinning and I flipped between not caring and claiming it wasn't sinful. Deep down I knew the truth. After I renounced that lifestyle I turned from it and fought my sin. Are you fighting? Or sleeping on the job?
All this to say, I won’t fellowship with people in defiant sin.
Membership I think is useful since it makes little sense to hold one another accountable if you hold relatively large doctrinal disagreements like say a prayer and your saved, or God saves who He wants and we do nothing, or He has called all but few truly follow in a love faith obedient relationship.

I believe non-resistance means we don't sue, we don't defend ourselves and we do no harm to others.
How that boils down to children, I personally hope I would place myself between attacker and my children as I would with any person. I will not strike back and the military in any capacity is wrong. I would serve if forced as medical in a hospital, not on the battle field.

I believe Christians have no place in politics from voting to public office to jury duty. Not being able to judge if someone is truly guilty makes that easy for me and why should a non-resistant Christian run the military? or the police?

I’m still in training and I need a broken leg still since I roam too easily still and I’m easily misunderstood so if something makes little sense, maybe I wrote it wrong or I’m just that blunt.

Soloist
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Soloist, but I hate singing alone
Soloist, but my wife posts with me
Soloist, but I believe in community
Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
lesterb
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by lesterb »

Thanks for sharing, Soloist. Not everyone on here will agree with all your positions, but now we all know where you are coming from when you share your thoughts on a thread.
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Soloist
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by Soloist »

well I for one welcome friendly disagreements, I can't be right on everything can I? :P
Either Pm or new thread though so we don't bunny trail.
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Soloist, but I hate singing alone
Soloist, but my wife posts with me
Soloist, but I believe in community
Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
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gcdonner
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by gcdonner »

Robert wrote:You left out us wacko progressive Anabaptists.
I'm caught between #2 & #3...
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Ernie
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by Ernie »

mike wrote:
Ernie wrote:I voted #6.
I'm curious why you didn't vote #2.
Most moderate conservatives wear plain suits and cape dresses. We think immodest cape dresses (something fairly common in moderate settings) are a ridiculous conundrum and most of us feel that plain suits are mighty close to being "costly array".

We don't use the radio, we don't follow or attend professional sports, we don't go on expensive vacations or hunting trips, our men and ladies don't wear fashionable hairdos, printed T-shirts, designer clothing, high heels, glittery dresses, and other things commonly permitted in moderate conservative settings. On these types of issues we have more in common with the intermediate conservatives, however we part ways with them when it comes to church polity.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
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gcdonner
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by gcdonner »

Ernie wrote:
mike wrote:
Ernie wrote:I voted #6.
I'm curious why you didn't vote #2.
Most moderate conservatives wear plain suits and cape dresses. We think immodest cape dresses (something fairly common in moderate settings) are a ridiculous conundrum and most of us feel that plain suits are mighty close to being "costly array".

We don't use the radio, we don't follow or attend professional sports, we don't go on expensive vacations or hunting trips, our men and ladies don't wear fashionable hairdos, printed T-shirts, designer clothing, high heels, glittery dresses, and other things commonly permitted in moderate conservative settings. On these types of issues we have more in common with the intermediate conservatives, however we part ways with them when it comes to church polity.
Some fine lines going on here between "moderate conservatives" and "intermediate conservatives" and it seems to be based on what "we" don't do. After all these traditional do's and don't, what are the differences in church "polity"?
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Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth
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temporal1
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by temporal1 »

lester, your thoughts on poll results so far?
with 29 "selecting," it's heavily CM, 1+2; great majority Anabaptist, when including 3.
some CM's may have selected 6.

MN has 284 registered members at this moment, possibly 10% actively posting seems reasonable.
(not that your OP was only for active posters.) some have posted without selecting.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Ernie
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by Ernie »

gcdonner wrote:
Ernie wrote:
mike wrote: I'm curious why you didn't vote #2.
Most moderate conservatives wear plain suits and cape dresses. We think immodest cape dresses (something fairly common in moderate settings) are a ridiculous conundrum and most of us feel that plain suits are mighty close to being "costly array".

We don't use the radio, we don't follow or attend professional sports, we don't go on expensive vacations or hunting trips, our men and ladies don't wear fashionable hairdos, printed T-shirts, designer clothing, high heels, glittery dresses, and other things commonly permitted in moderate conservative settings. On these types of issues we have more in common with the intermediate conservatives, however we part ways with them when it comes to church polity.
Some fine lines going on here between "moderate conservatives" and "intermediate conservatives" and it seems to be based on what "we" don't do. After all these traditional do's and don't, what are the differences in church "polity"?
At our church we do not require Plain attire. We spend a lot of time in group prayer both in our Sunday meetings and otherwise.
We try to live within a couple miles of each other. We like to eat a couple meals together each week if possible.
Every Tuesday morning at 6:00 there is a community prayer and discipleship meeting that is open to any men from the community. Frequently this meeting has more men from Protestant churches than men from our church.
We have communion twice a month, a love feast each quarter, and a Church Family Council each year. In addition, the church men get together several times a month for prayer and accountability and the ladies meet twice a month for inspiration, accountability, and prayer.
The men at our church who meet the Biblical qualifications for elder or deacon and are committed and submitted to the church are given regular opportunities to preach if they wish. The elder and deacons do not meet separately from the non-ordained men. All the men who are committed and submitted to the brotherhood are invited to be part of any church related meetings.
Our Sunday church meetings start at 4:30 PM with a period of prayer, followed by a time of confession, praise, singing, and/or reports of our involvements in the community and beyond. After this we have a children's lesson. Then we sing about 5 congregational songs after which we have our I Corinthians 14 meeting in which any brother can share a scripture reading, a word of exhortation, a devotional, or a short teaching. We don't use Sunday school quarterlies. We would not forbid someone from speaking in tongues and would not want them to continue unless there was an interpreter. (So far we have not had to deal with this, but just mentioning it as part of church polity.) We sit together as families rather than have segregated seating. We probably wouldn't spend money building a church building and if we did, we probably wouldn't build a pulpit in it.
We attend German Baptist conferences, Mennonite Conferences, coordinate "Kingdom Christian" Conferences and Church Planters Forums.
We have two offices rather than three and appoint our elders and deacons instead of using the lot to determine who the next bishop, minister, or deacons should be. I don't think we would be opposed to using the lot but would probably only use it if if there were an equal number of votes or something like that.

Most if not all of these things would be different from Intermediate Conservative Mennonites.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
lesterb
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
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Re: Where do you fit?

Post by lesterb »

I was just glancing over the poll results. The results turned out a little different than I expected. At this point the results are like follows...

Code: Select all

Plain Anabaptists           28%
Moderate Anabaptists        41%
Theological Anabaptists     14%
Sightseers                   3% 
Unclassifiable              14%
So at this point the board has a fairly strong Mennonite flavor, but more moderate than conservative. For some reason I was expecting the theological Anabaptist voice to be stronger. I guess we should have another poll that measures from passive to aggressive. 8-)
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