What is Zionism?

[gcdonner]

Generally speaking Zionism within a Christian mindset/scenario assumes that Christianity should support the Jews of present day Israel as the chosen people of God and that it was a fulfillment of scripture when the nation was formed in 1948. So much was this the mindset that many christians really believed that the rapture and beginning of the tribulation period would begin in 1988, exactly 40 years (a generation) after it's formation and applied Jesus reference to "this generation" to that fulfillment, extending his prophecy for 2000 years into the future to that particular generation. That 40 year period has now been extended to 70 years...making 2018 to be the year of the rapture.
A biblical generation is consistently measured at 40 years...
The Balfour Declaration was the effort of Christian Zionists to reserve a homeland for the Jews, with an eye toward fulfillment of prophecy and has been part of the impetus for the Dispensensationalist movement to continue, along with all the pop books and movies of that ilk.

This reminds me of a book I read in the 1970s: The Late Great Planet Earth. If I'm not mistaken, the author of that book was a proponent of these concepts.

Like many others of that time (I have the book in my library...) Hal Lindsey made a lot of money off of the ignorance of many Christians, as do the authors of the "Left Behind" series of books/videos. That is why I call it Dispen-sensationalism. Every time someone jerks their knee in Palestine, another one of their books pop out saying it is a fulfillment of scripture and the end surely is near. 88 Reasons the Rapture will happen in 1988, by Edgar Wisenant was another, and his book was revised the next and edited to say "89 reasons...1989".

[gcdonner]

What games Josh?

Google the definition for yourself if you'd like. I honestly do think the generally understood definition has broadened over time - maybe they should've consulted you first for permission.

By the way, I don't have a lot at stake in the term one way or the other. I'll just add that the googled definition matched my prior understanding, for what it's worth.

When any discussion where we attempt to define something has an obligatory detail into "Language changes, things can't really be clearly defined" which often pairs, much like a merlot with a steak, with "My fringe definition of this term is correct because you can't really nail down definitions anyway."

Definitions often are determined by context. Zionism is the same, it depends on the context what it means as has been demonstrated by several responses here. There is the Zionism that was secular (sic), there was/is religious Jewish Zionism, there are various forms of Christian Zionism, so to understand what someone is talking about in a particular instance depends entirely on the context that they are in and the intent of their reference. It is wholly like interpreting scripture. You can make claims based on out of context phrases and passages all day long, but until they are put in their proper context, no one is really going to come a a full and proper understanding of the terms and phrases. That is one of the reasons I continually strive to "define terms", when discussing scripture.
Dispensensationalism, is scriptural prophecy taken entirely out of it's original context and thrust into modern commentators own time context, making it a pretext and not the intended meanings of scripture at all. Unfortunately, most futurism is the same, and much of it, whether intentional or otherwise is influenced by Christian Zionism with the mistaken belief that the present day "Jews" are still the chosen people of God, in total contradiction to NT teaching.

[gcdonner]

We had a family that we spent some time with that I am not sure if they would be considered Zionist? But they would be something like first generation Anabaptist's.
We had an entertaining evening one Friday where this family came over for supper (husband, wife, and five children). As well as a Holdeman couple in their 80's, and a single reformed Baptist and Calvinist leaning man in his early 20's.
No need for any forms of electronics gadgets or entertainment with that line up!

Through the conversations that evening the husband of this family said he didn't believe in heaven.

The Holdeman couple were the last ones to leave that evening and on their way out the husband told me that it was their 60th wedding anniversary today... My heart sank a bit as I thought of all the talking from some when maybe there should have been a bit more listening to this zealous, joyful, excited, and experienced old man.

Since the nearest Anabaptist is a ways away this family was coming to our home for Sunday as well. I had a strong feeling that he thought he was going to come to our home so that he could preach about everyone going to hell. And I was right!

I stopped him and tried to say that we could listen to sermons online or that I had some CD's with sermons. He wasn't interested and had to show me all the scripture he had compiled for the message he wanted to share. So I listened while our families played and didn't really partake of the message: He said that when Jesus told the other man on the cross that today he would be with him in paradise and that Jesus did descend after His crucifixion implied that everyone goes to hell. And hell wasn't all bad but more like purgatory as we wait for the new earth after the thousand year rein. And then Jerusalem was going to come down from heaven (and land on earth?) And then he brought up the promise all throughout scripture and asked what it was? I said a Savior. His face dropped a bit and he shook his head and said, "No, the other promise: it's the promised land!"

Obviously this is very condensed and hopefully portrays things accurately.

I noticed when I sat near him after this in the Anabaptist church we sometimes make it to that he would not sing heaven in any of the songs but would always sing Zion in place of heaven. He has moved away now and I pray they are well.

This is my only experience with what I thought might be considered Zionism? Appreciate all the other thoughts!

That sounds like Heinz 57 varieties of theology. His attitude towards heaven would change if he were in my bible study last week at the nursing home.
Regarding the New Jerusalem...who is the Bride of the Lamb?
Think about it!

[silentreader]

We had a family that we spent some time with that I am not sure if they would be considered Zionist? But they would be something like first generation Anabaptist's.
We had an entertaining evening one Friday where this family came over for supper (husband, wife, and five children). As well as a Holdeman couple in their 80's, and a single reformed Baptist and Calvinist leaning man in his early 20's.
No need for any forms of electronics gadgets or entertainment with that line up!

Through the conversations that evening the husband of this family said he didn't believe in heaven.

The Holdeman couple were the last ones to leave that evening and on their way out the husband told me that it was their 60th wedding anniversary today... My heart sank a bit as I thought of all the talking from some when maybe there should have been a bit more listening to this zealous, joyful, excited, and experienced old man.

Since the nearest Anabaptist is a ways away this family was coming to our home for Sunday as well. I had a strong feeling that he thought he was going to come to our home so that he could preach about everyone going to hell. And I was right!

I stopped him and tried to say that we could listen to sermons online or that I had some CD's with sermons. He wasn't interested and had to show me all the scripture he had compiled for the message he wanted to share. So I listened while our families played and didn't really partake of the message: He said that when Jesus told the other man on the cross that today he would be with him in paradise and that Jesus did descend after His crucifixion implied that everyone goes to hell. And hell wasn't all bad but more like purgatory as we wait for the new earth after the thousand year rein. And then Jerusalem was going to come down from heaven (and land on earth?) And then he brought up the promise all throughout scripture and asked what it was? I said a Savior. His face dropped a bit and he shook his head and said, "No, the other promise: it's the promised land!"

Obviously this is very condensed and hopefully portrays things accurately.

I noticed when I sat near him after this in the Anabaptist church we sometimes make it to that he would not sing heaven in any of the songs but would always sing Zion in place of heaven. He has moved away now and I pray they are well.

This is my only experience with what I thought might be considered Zionism? Appreciate all the other thoughts!

That sounds like Heinz 57 varieties of theology. His attitude towards heaven would change if he were in my bible study last week at the nursing home.
That raises some interesting possibilities in my mind.

Regarding the New Jerusalem...who is the Bride of the Lamb?
Think about it!

[gcdonner]

We had a family that we spent some time with that I am not sure if they would be considered Zionist? But they would be something like first generation Anabaptist's.
We had an entertaining evening one Friday where this family came over for supper (husband, wife, and five children). As well as a Holdeman couple in their 80's, and a single reformed Baptist and Calvinist leaning man in his early 20's.
No need for any forms of electronics gadgets or entertainment with that line up!

Through the conversations that evening the husband of this family said he didn't believe in heaven.

The Holdeman couple were the last ones to leave that evening and on their way out the husband told me that it was their 60th wedding anniversary today... My heart sank a bit as I thought of all the talking from some when maybe there should have been a bit more listening to this zealous, joyful, excited, and experienced old man.

Since the nearest Anabaptist is a ways away this family was coming to our home for Sunday as well. I had a strong feeling that he thought he was going to come to our home so that he could preach about everyone going to hell. And I was right!

I stopped him and tried to say that we could listen to sermons online or that I had some CD's with sermons. He wasn't interested and had to show me all the scripture he had compiled for the message he wanted to share. So I listened while our families played and didn't really partake of the message: He said that when Jesus told the other man on the cross that today he would be with him in paradise and that Jesus did descend after His crucifixion implied that everyone goes to hell. And hell wasn't all bad but more like purgatory as we wait for the new earth after the thousand year rein. And then Jerusalem was going to come down from heaven (and land on earth?) And then he brought up the promise all throughout scripture and asked what it was? I said a Savior. His face dropped a bit and he shook his head and said, "No, the other promise: it's the promised land!"

Obviously this is very condensed and hopefully portrays things accurately.

I noticed when I sat near him after this in the Anabaptist church we sometimes make it to that he would not sing heaven in any of the songs but would always sing Zion in place of heaven. He has moved away now and I pray they are well.

This is my only experience with what I thought might be considered Zionism? Appreciate all the other thoughts!

That sounds like Heinz 57 varieties of theology. His attitude towards heaven would change if he were in my bible study last week at the nursing home.
That raises some interesting possibilities in my mind.

Regarding the New Jerusalem...who is the Bride of the Lamb?
Think about it!

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

[silentreader]

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with that.

[appleman2006]

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with that.

I am quite pleased to admit that I also agree.

[silentreader]

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with that.

Thanks, jm

[silentreader]

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with that.

I am quite pleased to admit that I also agree.

Oh no, next thing we'll have consensus.

[Wade]

There are all kinds of possibilities when you teach in the nursing homes.
The New Jerusalem does come down from heaven, Revelation 21 is NOT a description of heaven, but of the new heavens and new earth, which have nothing to do with the globe of dirt or the sun, moon and stars in a strictly scientific sense.

Thank you George, for working in nursing homes for His glory.