Mennonites And Guns And Society

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
RZehr
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by RZehr »

Yes I would have opinions on who is setting who apart, but mostly only on specific issues or specific individual cases.
And I would grant that there may be instances when I, or we, are doing some incorrect setting apart.

This is why when I look across Christiandom, I try not to be like John in Mark 9:38.
I also would apply Mark 9:38 to someone having an AR.
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Josh
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Josh »

I feel as Christians we should be “set apart” from those who must use deadly force to defend themselves. We can show the gospel by being peacemakers and reconcilers yet also having a good testimony by not condemning those who do still rely on deadly force, or live with someone they aren’t married to, etc.

Instead we can gently encourage them to live a godly life. Ultimately the only way they can continue to live it is when they accept Jesus’ gift of salvation.
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RZehr
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by RZehr »

We are quite familiar and free with 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 on issues that are pleasing to our flesh.

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Why is it so seldom used when the context is giving up something we like? Why not use this as a proof text for freely giving up AR-15's instead of using the passage as a lever to get something that I want?
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Mennogal
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Mennogal »

Josh wrote:The Holdeman position is that we do not concealed carry or get permits to do so and we do not own handguns.
I have been wondering what the majority view is on this... in converting to Mennonite, do I give up my firearm?
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Josh
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Josh »

Mennogal wrote:
Josh wrote:The Holdeman position is that we do not concealed carry or get permits to do so and we do not own handguns.
I have been wondering what the majority view is on this... in converting to Mennonite, do I give up my firearm?
I got rid of my handguns out of personal conviction. Keeping hunting firearms or even sporting firearms would be acceptable.

In my church keeping an AR-15 style weapon is not acceptable. In less-conservative churches they would be popular.
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Dan Z
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Dan Z »

Mennogal wrote:
Josh wrote:The Holdeman position is that we do not concealed carry or get permits to do so and we do not own handguns.
I have been wondering what the majority view is on this... in converting to Mennonite, do I give up my firearm?
First, that probably depends on why you have your firearm Mennogal. If you have a simple hunting rifle, I don't think there would be many among us who would find fault with that. However, if you carry a sidearm or keep a gun in your house for protection, then most conservative Mennonites would say that you are doing so in violation of the teachings & example of Christ and his apostles.

A second, and more complex level to consider here is "the appearance of evil" and how owning a firearm might affect your witness for the way of Jesus. In this case, you may be a collector of WWII paraphernalia for example, or you may choose to shoot targets with a semi-automatic assault rifle like an AR-15. I suppose the letter of the law would say that if you're not keeping these items for self defense, then there should be no problem in having them. However, if you believe that non-resistance is the way of Christ, and that the Christ-follower must bear witness to being a peacemaker who eschews the use of the sword, then owning a weapon of war - even if you have no (immediate) intent to use it - sends the wrong message to those around you (including your children and family).

I guess I'm saying that since our faith tradition puts a premium on a living and radical witness for the way of Christ - in how we dress, in how we speak, in media, in profession, in how we live - our commitment to peace and non-resistance should be as unambiguous as the other areas of our life.

Regarding the majority perspective, within Mennonite circles, you'll find a range of views on this from more progressive Mennonites who want to be inclusive and not burden people with high expectations like getting rid of their weaponry, to more conservative-minded folks who prioritize gun liberty above the witness of non-resistance. So if you really want to keep your guns, you can probably find a place to call home - even within Mennodom. Historically however, most Anabaptists would have said that following Christ means setting aside weapons of war and violence - and I would hope this is still the majority belief among us Anabaptists.

BTW, I think Josh has addressed this admirably in some of his posts. I like where his church comes out here. I think their witness is consistent, both historically and ethically.
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RZehr
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by RZehr »

Dan Z wrote:from more progressive Mennonites who want to be inclusive and not burden people with high expectations like getting rid of their weaponry, to more conservative-minded folks who prioritize gun liberty above the witness of non-resistance.
What? This is an odd thought. We conservatives prioritize gun liberty above the witness, but progressives sit on moral high ground in their acceptance of the same?
I know of no one that owns an AR-15.
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Josh
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Josh »

RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote:from more progressive Mennonites who want to be inclusive and not burden people with high expectations like getting rid of their weaponry, to more conservative-minded folks who prioritize gun liberty above the witness of non-resistance.
What? This is an odd thought. We conservatives prioritize gun liberty above the witness, but progressives sit on moral high ground in their acceptance of the same?
I know of no one that owns an AR-15.
Spend more time around moderately conservative Mennonites who like to read Fox News, and you will.
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Dan Z
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Dan Z »

RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote:from more progressive Mennonites who want to be inclusive and not burden people with high expectations like getting rid of their weaponry, to more conservative-minded folks who prioritize gun liberty above the witness of non-resistance.
What? This is an odd thought. We conservatives prioritize gun liberty above the witness, but progressives sit on moral high ground in their acceptance of the same?
I know of no one that owns an AR-15.

I think my sentence was confusing RZehr - I wasn't conceding moral high ground to anyone who is not consistent in their non-resistant witness as far as weaponry is concerned - I was just pointing out that exceptions can be found in both the progressive and conservative sides of the church - for different reasons.

Glad you know no one with an AR-15 by the way. :)
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Bootstrap
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Re: Mennonites And Guns And Society

Post by Bootstrap »

RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote:from more progressive Mennonites who want to be inclusive and not burden people with high expectations like getting rid of their weaponry, to more conservative-minded folks who prioritize gun liberty above the witness of non-resistance.
What? This is an odd thought. We conservatives prioritize gun liberty above the witness, but progressives sit on moral high ground in their acceptance of the same?
I know of no one that owns an AR-15.
I don't know any non-plain Mennonites with an AR-15 either, though I'm sure they exist. The churches I have been involved with tended to use moral persuasion rather than rules, but an AR-15 would have raised more than a few eyebrows. Ditto for pistols.

Hunting rifles were common.
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