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If this has been asked/discussed previously, I apologize, and please point me to it. This question is particularly for those of you who grew up "Plain" and are fairly familiar with the groups you have grown up in:

In your experience or from family photos/discussions/etc, is the general Plain dress standard and uniformity of the more conservative Anabaptists (black hats, solid/dark colors, bonnets, dark cars, etc) a development over the last 100 years, or do you find that little has changed among them? And if you have seen / can verify that things have evolved into stricter forms now, is that documentable or does it rely on anecdotal information?

I understand there has long been "nonconformed" dress. I'm asking about the specificity and strongly regulated uniformity now present. And yes, I've read Stephen Scott and company, thank you. I'm asking specifically of those who have grown up within such groups that can answer the question firsthand-ish, even if you are now in less conservative or less regulated groups.

We have a photo of my father-in-law and his twin sister from approximately 90 years ago and they are dressed much more conservatively than his great grandchildren are dressed today. We have pictures of my wife's parents when they were dating 80 years ago - they appear much more conservative than we did thirty years later. Yet when I see a picture of my great grandfather from almost 50 years earlier, he doesn't appear as plain. I believe some of the plain dress standards were not set so much by the old order people as they were by fundamentalist Mennonites from Indiana and Ohio and then introduced to the east.

There are some items of clothing that were acceptable 60 years ago that are no longer acceptable in the old order church where I grew up. On the other hand some dress styles accepted today would not have acceptable 60 years ago. In some ways the dress patterns for Old Order men have become stricter in the 60 years while girls' dress is changing in the other direction.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. To reiterate, if anyone else wants to share, I'm asking in the context of Plain/regulated dress NOW and looking back as to whether its been an evolution toward such or away from it.

Heirbyadoption wrote:Interesting. Thank you for sharing. To reiterate, if anyone else wants to share, I'm asking in the context of Plain/regulated dress NOW and looking back as to whether its been an evolution toward such or away from it.

Well I've heard from a bishop that when he was a young boy some churches still had their young boy baby-toddlers in dresses... Also that the dresses around the time he was young were knee high dresses while most at my church (and his) are now down to the ankles mostly. (and no baby boys wear dresses)

I do not have a lot of data to prove this but my sense is that there would of been a significant difference in dress back in the 1700's and 1800's between those in high society and most Anabaptists and not so much among the common people and Anabaptists.

I may be wrong. I know here in Ontario for example the neck tie would of been very accepted in Mennonite groups as a whole and still is by the young men in the Old Order setting. The straight cut suit really was only worn up here primarily by the ministry and perhaps some older men up until the early 60's. I am among the first generation of men in our area that could say they have never worn a tie which may explain why I have no more personal conviction today to not wearing a tie than I would have to not wear a suit coat. For the record I basically never wear either.

I am not sure about plain dress evolution - it seems to me it is more of a style issue. Certainly my grandmother's dress was longer than my mother's and my wife's dress is shorter than her mother's was. However, the Old Order church in Ontario would not allow dress lengths to match those of Appleman's church. It is considered a style issue. Hems seem to rise and fall based on trends in the greater society. I remember 45 years ago girls in the Markham church wore knee length dresses and so wide that when it got windy it was necessary to avert the eyes.

As well when things slide to where styles of dress become more "worldly" the plain churches sometimes will pull back. A deacon from the WF church told me they were having issues with the ladies' shoes becoming too fashionable so they decided to accept only shoes with laces. The local old order church started taking a stand on styles of eye glasses; men are expected to wear high top shoes (like a police shoe) and suspenders but no belts. I don't think these actions are as a result of a continuing evolution of plain dress. It has more to do with stopping fashionable trends. My church says "fashionable hair styles for men, whether long or short are discouraged.

Hats Off wrote:The local old order church started taking a stand on styles of eye glasses

Please tell me you're joking.... what are we gonna regulate next? Plaid boxer shorts???

steve-in-kville wrote:

Hats Off wrote:The local old order church started taking a stand on styles of eye glasses

Please tell me you're joking.... what are we gonna regulate next? Plaid boxer shorts???

It’s an expression of style and fashion, just like everything else. (Plaid boxer shorts shouldn’t be, unless one is badly in need of a belt or suspenders.)

steve-in-kville wrote:

Hats Off wrote:The local old order church started taking a stand on styles of eye glasses

Please tell me you're joking.... what are we gonna regulate next? Plaid boxer shorts???

Steve, are you truly unfamiliar with the fact that Old Orders regulate such things as eye glasses styles? Or was that simply a comedic response?

Heirbyadoption wrote:

steve-in-kville wrote:

Hats Off wrote:The local old order church started taking a stand on styles of eye glasses

Please tell me you're joking.... what are we gonna regulate next? Plaid boxer shorts???

Steve, are you truly unfamiliar with the fact that Old Orders regulate such things as eye glasses styles? Or was that simply a comedic response?

I wasn't being funny. I never heard of regulating eyewear. I never heard of this before....