RZehr, I assume, when you speak of reality, you are referencing Ernie's comments?RZehr wrote:Amen. This is reality speaking here, not theory.Ernie wrote:This will only work if everyone in the church thinks this way.Heirbyadoption wrote: May I respectfully suggest, after some experimental window shopping by my dear companion and I, that its actually not all that hard to establish a general principle/practice of modesty and find suitable clothing in stores that fall within that principle, and that this could be maintained through good teaching and open communication (even to the point of gently following the Matthew 18 pattern if you or another are stumbling because of someone else). It is actually possible to shop for clothing without being a victim of the contemporary fashion industry and their standards.
My experience (in an "open communication church") is that sooner or later, the church will get some people who don't see fashion as being all that big a deal. At first they seem to conform to the group norms but then they gradually start making small changes and wait to see if anyone confronts them.
At first no one wants to confront them because no one wants to be accused of being nit picky.
But eventually in an "open communication" church these things do get addressed by those who are care most about such deviations, and sure enough the one being confronted does feel that the one's doing the addressing are being nit picky. After a few years, these addresses start "building up" and the person starts getting a chip on their soldier.
The other option is to wait until something has gotten really bad and then try to address it, but by then you've left a Trojan horse into the community.
And Ernie, I agree that this is how things go sometimes in reality. Yes, ideally, if everyone in the church thought alike, it would go well and smoothly. But to clarify, whether the church thinks alike or not, I'm just offering first hand testimony that it IS possible to obtain modest, simple store-bought clothing for men and women. I continue to hear dogmatic statements to the contrary (even on MN sometimes) and frankly, in my experience, this is not the case; instead, such statements strike me as either an excuse to justify not buying store bought clothing, or to maintain a certain style of clothing. I'm not pointing any fingers, it just is what it is.
Back to your earlier comments, though, since we're talking about reality, might I assume we can agree that those who do not teach/keep the discussion relevant about fashion actually being a big deal, and those who are afraid to "confront" (for a variety of reasons, but most because of our own discomfort/embarrassment/pride, not from fear of driving folks away), are actually the enablers in this situation? We like to blame the world and the drifting brother/sister when we see somebody drifting or even "hopping ship", when in reality (at least, as I have experienced it) the uncomfortable reality is that it's just as much (or more) our own fault for not continuing to pursue the conversation with them...