Plain Dress Evolution

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Wade
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:I feel confident defending that assumption.

For those who don’t have their church dictate fashion and style choices, who does dictate them to you?
:wave:
Sometimes the thrift store. :) Although dress pants and a button up long sleeve shirt for me and my son's are fairly easy to find at them( with non-loud colors even.) :P

As for the Christian neighbor we went carolling with that is now interested in trying on my wife's headcoverings it would be my wife having the influence on that.
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silentreader
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by silentreader »

buckeyematt2 wrote:There are some verses relevant to whether external man-made rules are necessary, or if living in the Spirit is sufficient.

Colossians 2:22 - These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:13, 16: For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another... But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

There's also Romans 14.

From NT evidence, it seems Christians have freedom on these kinds of outward things/activities that are not addressed in Scripture unless it causes others to stumble or offend.
1 Corinthians 8 English Standard Version (ESV)
Food Offered to Idols
8 Now concerning[a] food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.
4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating[c] in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged,[d] if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers[e] and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
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silentreader
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by silentreader »

There's a lot of mention made of Romans 14. Do we need to consider it beside 1 Corinthians 8?
When does tolerance become compromise?
When do we say like Cain, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
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Josh
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Josh »

Wade wrote:
Josh wrote:I feel confident defending that assumption.

For those who don’t have their church dictate fashion and style choices, who does dictate them to you?
:wave:
Sometimes the thrift store. :) Although dress pants and a button up long sleeve shirt for me and my son's are fairly easy to find at them( with non-loud colors even.) :P

As for the Christian neighbor we went carolling with that is now interested in trying on my wife's headcoverings it would be my wife having the influence on that.
I shop at the thrift store too, but what about sisters?
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Wade
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:
Wade wrote:
Josh wrote:I feel confident defending that assumption.

For those who don’t have their church dictate fashion and style choices, who does dictate them to you?
:wave:
Sometimes the thrift store. :) Although dress pants and a button up long sleeve shirt for me and my son's are fairly easy to find at them( with non-loud colors even.) :P

As for the Christian neighbor we went carolling with that is now interested in trying on my wife's headcoverings it would be my wife having the influence on that.
I shop at the thrift store too, but what about sisters?
For the most part it's been Gehman's dictating what my wife and daughters wear. My wife has been wondering about the impression it is giving people at times though...
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Josh
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Josh »

It’s a real challenge now for committed Christians to find women’s clothes that have a good Christian testimony.
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Martin
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Martin »

Josh wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote:The Scriptures and the Holy Spirit are theoretically sufficient. The above premise, however, seems to presume to dictate a limitation of the Spirit's operation to corporate context. Based on observation, I disagree at least with that limiting.
Where can I see this ideal body of believers "following the Spirit" who don't succumb to worldly trends?

It may be difficult to see from your perspective because you haven't spent time in liberal or mainstream-evangelical settings.
I'm also not in favor of man-made rules and believe I need to be more tolerant. If I'm not mistaken, one group that does not have rules other than the Scripture is the Reformed Mennonites.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Josh wrote:It’s a real challenge now for committed Christians to find women’s clothes that have a good Christian testimony.
I'd like to address your earlier question in conjunction with this statement, but before I do, what do you mean by a "good Christian testimony?"
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Josh
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Josh »

Displaying virtues of simplicity, modesty, not being costly, displaying gender distinction, and avoiding being an outlet for vanity and pride.

These things are values most of the world does not value.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Plain Dress Evolution

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Josh wrote:Displaying virtues of simplicity, modesty, not being costly, displaying gender distinction, and avoiding being an outlet for vanity and pride.

These things are values most of the world does not value.
Alright. I think we're on the same page as far as what constitutes a good Christian testimony in dress. I can point you to personal friends and relations across the country who don't seem to have this great difficulty you reference, and yet they still buy or sometimes make their own clothing. I am beginning to face the same issue with my own children. But we haven't found it to be the great challenge that some imply, and certainly not impossible as you may also sometimes hear (and I have). I won't dispute it takes effort though, as does any conscientious choice, but it's not the great difficulty or improbability (at least from what I've seen) that is implied here. Perhaps you could share what has led you to believe it is?

Does it require a little looking at times for modest clothing? Sure. Does it require you to exercise discernment? Absolutely. Do parents need to guide their children in these areas through word and example, and even address why it may sometimes set them apart from some of their friends? Unquestionably. On the other hand, if we have a rule dictated for cut and style and color for everything we wear (or drive or have or own, etc), it would be infinitely easier in a sense, but through experience I have come to believe the cons of that far outweigh the pros. I suppose a thread could be started on that too. ;) Overall, I think we would all do well to be more careful with our dogmatic statements on issues like this.
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