Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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appleman2006
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

Blessings to you Wade. I really do appreciate you and yes I am confident we would get along well together.
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Josh
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Josh »

appleman,

Can you comment what the general feeling from the rest of Mid-West is about the progressive side of Midwest, of which I used to be a part?

For example:
- Drama Productions by the youth for Easter and Thanksgiving
- Youth attend Elnora, not Heritage, Maranatha, etc
- Families watch DVDs of TV shows
- “CMC-style” small doily veilings during the week
- Alcohol consumption by members in good standing

I learned when I attended Midwest’s conference that these things are not the norm. As an outsider walking into the middle of this, it’s all very confusing.
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appleman2006
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

The fact that Midwest is not a conference probably means that you would have a great variety of feeling about a lot of those things. If by conference you mean the fellowship meetings that are held every year on the first weekend of July I can understand you being a bit confused. I have been to a few of those as well and been a bit confused by some of the things said at them myself.
As I have said there is a pretty big difference within Midwest. And yes I can find negative things to say. But I prefer to look for the good in people. Even those that I might disagree with or who might not like me very much.
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appleman2006
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

And also just for the record. I do see inconsistencies within the moderate church groups. And I do speak up on inconsistencies as I feel it is important. But I prefer to do it the way I hope other people do when they see inconsistencies with my life
I hope they come and talk to me about it personally. I do not make a point of going around and spending a lot of time pointing out other church group's failings. Comes pretty close to doing that thing, you know, how does the Bible talk about it? Raising dissention and mistrust or something like that. I really have been trying to build up rather than tear down. I fail at it sometimes. And sometimes I dispair. But I still think it is worth trying.
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Josh
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Josh »

appleman2006 wrote:The fact that Midwest is not a conference probably means that you would have a great variety of feeling about a lot of those things. If by conference you mean the fellowship meetings that are held every year on the first weekend of July I can understand you being a bit confused. I have been to a few of those as well and been a bit confused by some of the things said at them myself.
As I have said there is a pretty big difference within Midwest. And yes I can find negative things to say. But I prefer to look for the good in people. Even those that I might disagree with or who might not like me very much.
I prefer to look for the good in people too - the question is, why not look for the good in the CMC or MC USA? They have bigger congregations with better programs, more youth, more people my age, and much more outreach programs.

Actually, what surprised me at the fellowship meetings was the uniformity. My own congregation stuck out like a sore thumb.
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Ernie
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:- the question is, why not look for the good in the CMC or MC USA? They have bigger congregations with better programs, more youth, more people my age, and much more outreach programs...
appleman2006 wrote:While I cannot speak for the future the fact is that at least here in Ontario the rate of growth in the moderate settings is far faster than in the ultra or intermediate groups. Not saying it will always be that way but presently it still is. And yes a large amount of them come from OO or ultra and lately even intermediate settings.... And yes some just flow through but many many have found what they perceive to be a solid place to land and dig roots. In other words it is very evident that the moderate groups at least in this area are filling a very obvious need and void.
So CMC and LMC and MCUSA folks (as well as Protestant churches who are receiving a steady stream of conservative Anabaptist churches) could say something very similar, correct? (that they are filling a very obvious need)
Just because people are finding something in a church that they didn't find in a more conservative church doesn't justify the more progressive church's worldview, does it?

I'm simply not in favor of this idea that we need to have a wide smorgasboard of churches and church dealerships so that people everywhere can experience what they want.

Rather I think we should be helping each other grow greener grass so that sheep will not feel a need to leave our fold.

For some reason we think favorably of people who join our churches and find us to be more spiritual than the one they came from, but look on with sadness at those who leave us.
All the while we are trying to justify to ourselves and others that we have one of the better packages the world has to offer.
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appleman2006
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

Josh wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:The fact that Midwest is not a conference probably means that you would have a great variety of feeling about a lot of those things. If by conference you mean the fellowship meetings that are held every year on the first weekend of July I can understand you being a bit confused. I have been to a few of those as well and been a bit confused by some of the things said at them myself.
As I have said there is a pretty big difference within Midwest. And yes I can find negative things to say. But I prefer to look for the good in people. Even those that I might disagree with or who might not like me very much.
I prefer to look for the good in people too - the question is, why not look for the good in the CMC or MC USA? They have bigger congregations with better programs, more youth, more people my age, and much more outreach programs.

Actually, what surprised me at the fellowship meetings was the uniformity. My own congregation stuck out like a sore thumb.
Actually I do try to look for the positive in those groups as well. I think my record is pretty clear in that. As to the Midwest meetings. Not sure where they were held the year you attended. But as a rule the small percentage of those that would attend would probably look quite a bit the same maybe especially while they were there.
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appleman2006
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:- the question is, why not look for the good in the CMC or MC USA? They have bigger congregations with better programs, more youth, more people my age, and much more outreach programs...
appleman2006 wrote:While I cannot speak for the future the fact is that at least here in Ontario the rate of growth in the moderate settings is far faster than in the ultra or intermediate groups. Not saying it will always be that way but presently it still is. And yes a large amount of them come from OO or ultra and lately even intermediate settings.... And yes some just flow through but many many have found what they perceive to be a solid place to land and dig roots. In other words it is very evident that the moderate groups at least in this area are filling a very obvious need and void.
So CMC and LMC and MCUSA folks (as well as Protestant churches who are receiving a steady stream of conservative Anabaptist churches) could say something very similar, correct? (that they are filling a very obvious need)
Just because people are finding something in a church that they didn't find in a more conservative church doesn't justify the more progressive church's worldview, does it?

I'm simply not in favor of this idea that we need to have a wide smorgasboard of churches and church dealerships so that people everywhere can experience what they want.

Rather I think we should be helping each other grow greener grass so that sheep will not feel a need to leave our fold.

For some reason we think favorably of people who join our churches and find us to be more spiritual than the one they came from, but look on with sadness at those who leave us.
All the while we are trying to justify to ourselves and others that we have one of the better packages the world has to offer.
Not sure that you heard everything I said. I certainly do not jump up and down with joy every time a person that comes from a more conservative group shows an interest in our group. In fact I have on occasion told them to make sure they in fact are making the right choice for them. And for the record my choice would certainly be to have fewer groups with a much bigger variety within the groups. I think that would in fact be a lot healthier for everyone. I do understand some people do not get that.
As for people leaving our groups. It all depends but if it means they find a church where they can put themselves 100 percent behind and they show growth in their Christian lives then they have my blessing. If they are leaving out of bitterness and total dissatisfaction it causes me more sadness as much because I sense that somehow we have failed them and not given them the environment that they needed to grow and feel loved in. But even then my first reaction is where did I go wrong rather than assume the problem is all theirs.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by steve-in-kville »

appleman2006 wrote:It all depends but if it means they find a church where they can put themselves 100 percent behind and they show growth in their Christian lives then they have my blessing. If they are leaving out of bitterness and total dissatisfaction it causes me more sadness as much because I sense that somehow we have failed them and not given them the environment that they needed to grow and feel loved in. But even then my first reaction is where did I go wrong rather than assume the problem is all theirs.

I agree with this 100% This really rings home with me. Too many Mennonites stick with a church because they are afraid to leave... afraid what their family will say.... afraid of repercussions from the leadership. So they stick it out when they know they belong somewhere else. Being miserable the whole time.

I went through this not long ago... dealing with the repercussions as I write this. Funny how nasty "Christians" can get!
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Ernie wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Ernie wrote:This is a thread to discuss Moderate-Conservative Mennonite Churches as categorized by Stephen Scott in his book, An Introduction to Older and Conservative Mennonite Groups.

This designation would include conferences and fellowships such as:

Cumberland Valley Mennonite Church (CV)
Mid-Atlantic Mennonite Fellowship (MAF)
Midwest Mennonite Fellowship (MW)
South Atlantic Mennonite Conference (SA)
Southeastern Mennonite Conference (SMC)

Post Secondary Schools: Maranatha Bible School (MN); Sharon Mennonite Bible Institute (PA); Faith Builders Educational Programs
Is this where you would put Keystone?

J.M.
Josh wrote:I would definitely put some of Keystone (eg York) in the Moderate category, not the Progressive category.

Starting at about 1:45 in this video, you can notice the transitions that are taking place in some parts of the Keystone Fellowship churches from Moderate to Progressive.

Never been any rule in KMF “requiring “ plain suits. I assume that is what you are referring to here. Some congregations may have that in their covenant. The flowers, well, I don’t know, I have never planned a wedding. The kids ties would likely have caused a stir in some parts, and the shotgun shell decoration??????

I have noticed that there is a bit of difference between congregations, and I would expect that.

Those categories are really a spectrum, and I don’t think many fit in neatly, or that congregations in a given constituency are all uniform.


J. M.
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