Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
My experience has been that people who hang on too long are the ones who experience the bitterness. We did not leave with bitterness and continue to respect the group we left. Others who left were surprised that we would go back to visit in the church we left. We didn't burn any bridges when we left. However, my problem is that I tend to equate ultra conservatives as being almost old order and that is probably not true.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
In my intermediate setting, we would regularly read ultra publications like The Christian Example or Eastern's Testimony. Spoken attitude toward Eastern ranges from "there's really very little difference between our groups" to the use of the "L-word". Ministers would be open to allowing Eastern people to speak, if Eastern would allow them (has happened before).Josh wrote:I don’t know if this is just my setting or if this conference-wide to Holdemans, but our ministry and a number of our members maintain good relations with the Ohio Wisler and Nationwide congregations near us, and to a lesser degree the Northeastern congregation near us.
There is a general attitude of respect to those on the right of us, along with concerns (which I hear voiced somewhat frequently) that those groups might be slipping.
For example, tolerating a preacher who privately is open to premillennialism; church disicipline getting laxer; members listening to recorded audio of non-Anabaptist preaching or much less conservative Anabaptist preaching.
This is in stark contrast to prior settings I have been in where there is an open mind to the left, but not to the right.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Ohio Wislers wouldn’t tolerate preaching it from the pulpit, but have been going soft in allowing someone to preach who privately may indulge in it.Heirbyadoption wrote:Holdemans feel the above can't be tolerated, I take it? Or did I misunderstand you?Josh wrote:...concerns (which I hear voiced somewhat frequently) that those groups might be slipping. For example, tolerating a preacher who privately is open to premillennialism
Within Holdeman circles we do not believe in millennialism and consider it a sign of spiritual decay, probably because of usually shows up with an undue interest in prophecy, reading “Left Behind” books, etc and a concomitant loss of focus on building Jesus’ kingdom in the here and now.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Just as a connected note, I agree with your statement about hanging on too long, but admittedly, it's also a bit different when you're put out rather than leaving voluntarily. Perhaps it's the same struggle against bitterness, but from a different perspective. And it's just not always those leaving/removed who burn the aforementioned bridges either, but that might be a discussion of its own.Hats Off wrote:My experience has been that people who hang on too long are the ones who experience the bitterness. We did not leave with bitterness and continue to respect the group we left. Others who left were surprised that we would go back to visit in the church we left. We didn't burn any bridges when we left.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Within Brethren circles we have always allowed the holding of various millenial views and studies/preaching on prophecy (possibly a peculiar result of our Radical Pietist roots in contrast to our early Anabaptist influences), so long as people are humble about it (yes, it's possible) and not dogmatic and schismatic when they find themselves in fellowship with others who feel differently. There has always been a variety of eschatological thought among the Brethren strain of Anabaptism, though it has never been a significant point of division among us, but rather a recognition that people are seeking to understand the Scriptures more fully. Thos among us who have tended toward a "loss of focus on building Jesus' kingdom in the here and now" have not tended to be those interested prophecy, but more those influenced by Protestantism/Evangelicalism. As for the Left Behind series, et al, we have never made a list of banned books (formally or informally), only encouraged that those things not in harmony with the Scriptures should be avoided; I have never heard the series in question posited as the way things ARE going to be, but only as a possibility, and that with creative license anyway.Josh wrote:Within Holdeman circles we do not believe in millennialism and consider it a sign of spiritual decay, probably because of usually shows up with an undue interest in prophecy, reading “Left Behind” books, etc and a concomitant loss of focus on building Jesus’ kingdom in the here and now.Heirbyadoption wrote:Holdemans feel the above can't be tolerated, I take it? Or did I misunderstand you?Josh wrote:...concerns (which I hear voiced somewhat frequently) that those groups might be slipping. For example, tolerating a preacher who privately is open to premillennialism
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Yep - in Brethren circles, premillenial thinking or even belief in the rapture doesn't seem to be associated with either spiritual decay, or with a slide towards dispensational thinking or towards basically becoming a Fundamentalist Baptist, and in Brethren circles, diversity of opinion on eschatology seems to have always been normal.Heirbyadoption wrote:Within Brethren circles we have always allowed the holding of various millenial views and studies/preaching on prophecy (possibly a peculiar result of our Radical Pietist roots in contrast to our early Anabaptist influences), so long as people are humble about it (yes, it's possible) and not dogmatic and schismatic when they find themselves in fellowship with others who feel differently. There has always been a variety of eschatological thought among the Brethren strain of Anabaptism, though it has never been a significant point of division among us, but rather a recognition that people are seeking to understand the Scriptures more fully. Thos among us who have tended toward a "loss of focus on building Jesus' kingdom in the here and now" have not tended to be those interested prophecy, but more those influenced by Protestantism/Evangelicalism. As for the Left Behind series, et al, we have never made a list of banned books (formally or informally), only encouraged that those things not in harmony with the Scriptures should be avoided; I have never heard the series in question posited as the way things ARE going to be, but only as a possibility, and that with creative license anyway.
Brethren and Mennonites are different in so many ways.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
And yet in other areas we have so much in common. In old order circles, many people would not know enough to really discuss the different aspects of minimalism. As one writer pointed out "Jesus said to occupy til I come,not to be pre-occupied with his coming."
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
I was surprised to discover that the EPMC is officially premillennial. I went to Numidia Bible School in winter 2004/2005 and had a class on that. As a pre myself, I would say I was pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Easterns seem to have fully absorbed dispensational doctrine. I have also encountered Nationwide folk which beleive in the rapture, and you can also find this in The Christian Example.JoshScott wrote:I was surprised to discover that the EPMC is officially premillennial. I went to Numidia Bible School in winter 2004/2005 and had a class on that. As a pre myself, I would say I was pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
Not really surprising given that EPMC and Nationwide are rooted in the Mennonite Church, which adopted many fundamentalist beliefs including premillennialism (though generally stopping a bit short of dispensationalism) a century ago. One of the things these groups try ultra-hard to conserve is fundamentalist theology.Josh wrote:Easterns seem to have fully absorbed dispensational doctrine. I have also encountered Nationwide folk which beleive in the rapture, and you can also find this in The Christian Example.JoshScott wrote:I was surprised to discover that the EPMC is officially premillennial. I went to Numidia Bible School in winter 2004/2005 and had a class on that. As a pre myself, I would say I was pleasantly surprised.
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I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited