Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Ernie
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Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Ernie »

This is a thread to discuss Ultra-Conservative Mennonite Churches as defined by Stephen Scott in his book, An Introduction to Older and Conservative Mennonite Groups.

This designation would include conferences and fellowships such as:

Appalachian Mountain Church (AMC) (Currently forming)
Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church (EPMC)
Conservative Mennonite Churches of Ontario (CMCO)
Conservative Mennonite Churches of York and Adams Counties, PA (YA)
Nationwide Fellowship Churches (NFC)
Ohio Wisler Mennonite (OW)
Washington Co. MD, and Franklin Co. PA Mennonite Conference (WF)

Ultra Conservatives –
These folks dress very uniformly, have fairly rigid standards, and it seems they have tried to copy the Mennonite church as it was about 1920-1930.
Most ultra conservatives have been heavily influenced by revivalism, fundamentalism, and mission mindedness from the early 1900’s.
Leaders of the church carry a lot of weight as to what direction the church goes and monitor very closely such things as dress guidelines, recreational activities, types of vehicles, and religious affiliations with others. Some of the churches in this group would drive black cars. Some men would wear black hats and some women would wear black bonnets over top their "I Cor. 11 head-covering".
Men typically wear dark pants. The majority of the men would not wear short sleeve shirts. Ladies typically wear solid colored or small print dresses and black footwear. Older ladies tend to wear darker colors while young girls may wear more pastels.
They would not allow musical instruments, even at home. (with a few rare exceptions)
Most would not allow internet for personal use. Some allow internet for business use.
Most do not buy insurance or benefit from government social programs unless it is required by law.
These folks will probably continue to have revival meetings and use printed Sunday School quarterlies, and start “clone” style missions around the world until the Lord returns. If you’ve ever heard of Rod and Staff Publishers, Lamp and Light Publishers, Grace Press, or Eastern Mennonite Publications, these are all organizations that are run by churches in this network. Ultra conservatives are fairly active in evangelistic outreach. Readers Digest would be seen by most Ultra Conservatives as having enough worldly influence that it wouldn’t be worth reading. The dominant peer-pressure in an ultra-conservative setting is to be very plain and traditional with many churches gradually becoming more conservative over the years.

Ultra Conservatives
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Ernie
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Ernie »

Appalachian Mountain Church (AMC) (Currently forming)
Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church (EPMC)
Conservative Mennonite Churches of Ontario (CMCO)
Conservative Mennonite Churches of York and Adams Counties, PA (YA)
Nationwide Fellowship Churches (NFC)
Ohio Wisler Mennonite (OW)

Youth Bible Schools: Numidia Bible School, Ashland Bible School, and Messiah Bible School.

Currently these groups form one constituency. i.e. They share pulpits, attend Bible schools together, and work on publication projects together. It will be interesting to see if this constituency forms two constituencies over the internet issue.

The more conservative folks in each of these conferences/fellowships would like no internet and would not send their youth to the above Bible schools. The rest are OK with internet for business use but not for personal research, social networking, etc.

Ultra conservatives stay separate from intermediate conservatives mainly because intermediate conservatives are in the process of acculturating to the left. Ultra conservatives could perhaps be thought of as "the new Old Orders".
Old Orders have historically been the constituency that populated all the other conservative groups. Now Ultra conservatives are joining them in this.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
temporal1
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by temporal1 »

Ernie,
i’m looking forward to studying these new threads. thank you for sharing.

i have a suggestion.
if it’s useful, good, if not, i’m trying to follow along and learn.
i think using these different threads is a good approach.

you have created 4 categories to describe/discuss 4 (variations) of conservative Mennonite fellowships, esp as seen “through the lense” of
Stephen Scott’s book, ”An Introduction to Older and Conservative Mennonite Groups.” (??)

i’m wondering if there’s an easy way to tie the 4 thread subject lines together, to help locate them together in future? (you may have more plans not yet posted, please forgive if i’m getting ahead of things here.)

A. S Scott: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches
B. S Scott: Intermediate Conservative Mennonite Churches
C. S Scott: Moderate Conservative Mennonite Churches
D. S Scott: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches

(there may be ways i have not thought about. or, it may not be useful to try.)
i’m trying to follow+learn, i may not be understanding well enough to make a suggestion. :)

if this post is unwanted, please do not hesitate to delete.
or, if moved, i would appreciate it going to “Omnium Gatherum,” in the “Other” category.
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Ernie
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Ernie »

temporal1 wrote:Ernie,
i’m wondering if there’s an easy way to tie the 4 thread subject lines together, to help locate them together in future? (you may have more plans not yet posted, please forgive if i’m getting ahead of things here.)
I'm planning to start a thread for all of the different plain constituencies that promote spiritual rebirth (as time permits). Once that is done, I will try to start a thread that lists all of the different constituencies with a link to the appropriate thread. However if someone wants to start a thread to discuss the different constituencies before I get that finished, go right ahead.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
appleman2006
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

So I am curious Ernie. Were the descriptions of the four groups of churches your own? I understand Stephen Scott's descriptions may have been a bit lengthily and would of been perhaps even a bit outdated in some cases by now but I am wondering if these were written in the most charitable way possible? Was the sarcasm and the somewhat negative digs in some cases really warranted in a thread like this. Or was it done on purpose to try and get discussion?
Just trying to figure out what the motive is here.
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Ernie
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Ernie »

appleman2006 wrote:So I am curious Ernie. Were the descriptions of the four groups of churches your own? I understand Stephen Scott's descriptions may have been a bit lengthily and would of been perhaps even a bit outdated in some cases by now but I am wondering if these were written in the most charitable way possible? Was the sarcasm and the somewhat negative digs in some cases really warranted in a thread like this. Or was it done on purpose to try and get discussion?
Just trying to figure out what the motive is here.
The descriptions are my own.
The motive is to provide people looking to join a Mennonite church with a realistic view of what to expect from this church in terms of non-conformity. I find many seekers are very disillusioned when what was presented to them verbally is different from what they experience functionally as a part of the church.
My goal was to be factual. Perhaps I was using sarcasm and negative digs that I was not aware of. I'm open to that being pointed out.
Charitable? I suppose that depends on whether it is viewed from the perspective of the ethnic Mennonites or from the point of the seekers.
I've been sending these descriptions out via email to inquirers for the last 5 years or so, but am putting it on MN for the purpose of collecting additional information about these constituencies that that I am not familiar with.
I realize now that I didn't include a sales pitch for each group. I could still do that.
Eventually I would like to write a book about the plain world and identify realities that are not generally talked about. I would include both the positive and the negative. If that even materializes, I will be glad to include you as a reviewer and perhaps you will be able to help me say things in a better way. :)
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
joshuabgood
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by joshuabgood »

I experienced your work as nearly purely descriptive, Ernie. Though I wasn't really seeing it with a lens where I had a strong identity with a particular group.
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Josh
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Josh »

Ernie’s descriptions seem spot on accurate and help me understand experiences I have had.

It’s quite fair to inform seekers of what future to expect. Very few seekers feel following Jesus means joining a highly conservative church today which will be a lot more like the world in 20 years.
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appleman2006
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by appleman2006 »

Fair enough. I think the descriptions are relatively accurate although I find the description of where the different groups stand in relation to how they view Reader's Digest to be somewhat humorous. And I frankly would hope that none of these things are really what define any of these groups. What I mean by that is I find the vast majority of this stuff to be hugely peripheral.

Frankly if it is these type of questions that the majority of interested seekers are asking than I find that hugely discouraging. While some of those things may say something about our relationship with God I would argue that by and large they do not.

I have friends, actually I will go further, I have close friends in all of these groups. Even beyond these groups on both the Old order side and on the MC USA side. In fact I have worked closely on boards or other organizations with people from all of these groups. And the fact is that there are very Godly people in all of these groups. I will go further and say that there are Godly spirit filled church bodies in all of these groups and there are also churches within all of these groups that are so dead and dry that they would combust with the lighting of one little match. The degree to how conservative or progressive any particular group is has very little if anything to do with it.
Ernie I appreciate the fact that you are trying to answer the questions and sort things out to help people understand the differences and I know you do not understand conservative to equate with holiness but I am wondering how we can get that thought across to seekers.
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Wade
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Re: Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

Post by Wade »

appleman2006 wrote:Fair enough. I think the descriptions are relatively accurate although I find the description of where the different groups stand in relation to how they view Reader's Digest to be somewhat humorous. And I frankly would hope that none of these things are really what define any of these groups. What I mean by that is I find the vast majority of this stuff to be hugely peripheral.

Frankly if it is these type of questions that the majority of interested seekers are asking than I find that hugely discouraging. While some of those things may say something about our relationship with God I would argue that by and large they do not.

I have friends, actually I will go further, I have close friends in all of these groups. Even beyond these groups on both the Old order side and on the MC USA side. In fact I have worked closely on boards or other organizations with people from all of these groups. And the fact is that there are very Godly people in all of these groups. I will go further and say that there are Godly spirit filled church bodies in all of these groups and there are also churches within all of these groups that are so dead and dry that they would combust with the lighting of one little match. The degree to how conservative or progressive any particular group is has very little if anything to do with it.
Ernie I appreciate the fact that you are trying to answer the questions and sort things out to help people understand the differences and I know you do not understand conservative to equate with holiness but I am wondering how we can get that thought across to seekers.
Maybe because we've come from lives of selfish empty pleasure seeking shallowness. We can be tired of conventional Christianity where there is a lot of talk but not much application, where that selfish pleasure seeking can be permissibly rampant. And we want to commit wholeheartedly to God with each aspect of our live's as far as we are able by how little we understand and as far as been revealed to us, in such a way that would be pleasing to Him. Not because we expect rigid standards and conformity, nor a reaction against our old man. But because that taste of communion and love from Him through His Son compels us to step out in faith as deep as we can go in love to Him and with fellow Christians. But don't be mistaken that it is about some feeling either, as literally forsaking all and loving our enemies doesn't come easily for those peacelovers but rather peacemakers. Ultras can come across as a bit more serious, and not because of what they are avoiding but because it seems they are Christ-centered and that is attractive. However, most people probably do eventually figure out what your saying with more experience but for some it still doesn't mean we are comfortable with the old worldly influences we see in less conservative churches.
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