Sexual abuse in Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
RZehr
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by RZehr »

Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
It is assumed that if someone has a police record, we already know about it. Especially on this issue. We don't open positions to people who aren't members.
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

mike wrote:Currently I am in contact with a young pastor from a local evangelical church who has been convicted of sexual crimes in relation to a minor and sentenced to 15-40 years in prison, and his family who is hurting deeply. Attending the sentencing was one of the hardest things I have ever sat through. There is an incredible amount of outcry, blame, and lynch-mob style vindictiveness toward the perpetrator of sexual crimes toward minors, even from Christians who believe in forgiveness and redemption. It is a human response that we all feel to some extent. But in my opinion it can distort and cloud over the many factors other than the sin of the perpetrator that led to such a situation. I also question how beneficial rage and vindictiveness toward the perpetrator is for the victim.

So on the one hand you have the cover-ups and the shielding of sexual predators. And on the other hand you have the lynch-mob mentality toward the perpetrators. Neither seem to be the way of Jesus.

What's the way of Jesus?
Good question. I think parents are naturally protective of their children, some more so than others. However, we live in this world, there are risks to take and prayers for protection and a belief in guardian angels are big tools for a believer. There must be a trust in God's protecting power.

And how did Jesus respond to sinning, I think the story of the woman caught in adultery is a good example. We are not to condemn anyone as we all sin in some ways and the exhortation is 'go and sin no more'. I think of the example shown by those Anabaptists when their loved ones were killed in that church shooting. True forgiveness. As Jesus said at the cross 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do'. Molesting an innocent child is either not being in a normal mind set or giving way to a warped, fleshly temptation. Jesus still loves the molester regardless of how horrific their sin is to us and ours.

I was at the Salvation Army Christmas kettle prior to Christmas and this little girl came up and look longingly at some candy canes I had to give out. She went back to her mom who was checking out her purchases and I heard her mom say in this case you can take candy from this man. Good training as she was taught not to take candy from a stranger. So, for sure, children need to be taught how to protect themselves and be wary of strangers.

And again what Jesus said and although He hates the sin and what is due the sinner He says -

[bible]Luke 17,1-4[/bible]
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

RZehr wrote:
Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
It is assumed that if someone has a police record, we already know about it. Especially on this issue. We don't open positions to people who aren't members.
We try to get folk involved prior to formal membership and most come from the unchurched or other churched world. Our situation then is quite different from yours I think.
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Wade
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Wade »

RZehr wrote:Wade I don't see what part of my post you are referencing. I don't understand your second sentence either. Could you clarify?
Maybe I misunderstood from this comment:
RZehr wrote: And I think peak outrage comes right before acceptance.
As I see you were talking about the world...

Because of the impression I took from that being said it just reminds of all the "God is love so he cannot hate" talk people give me. Recently a JW even got angry at me that his god would never send someone to hell because he is loving, when I didn't even say anything... Praying it was just the Spirits conviction.

I believe God abhors sin and we should too. That never means that we hate or lynch mob the sinner. To me that is where the difference in focus comes in. For example I believe God does hate murder but because He loves people.

We can chose to focus on repentance, healing, and forgiveness or we can focus on the sin and become angry.
Neglect is considered a form of abuse and so the thought of not focusing on the repentance, healing, and forgiveness side could come across as condoning and worse than being angry. Sometimes repentance and healing requires some putting out of people that might look like "outrage" but we should always hate sin and do this because we love that sinner and want his repentance ultimately, in junction with the healing of others too. People should feel protected and comfortable in the church as unfortunately the victims of these sins often feel unnecessary guilt for years from it because the fact it came from someone they should trust they have a hard time turning to anyone for the needed help, especially if it isn't dealt with immediately.
These types of sins should never be taken lightly, but not to say that you wouldn't do just that.

And I've been told sex education is now being taught in the public schools starting with children at age five. I don't think sexual abuse is a very worried about thing in society much anymore actually...



And BTW: When I was 15 one of my cousins took an hallucinogenic drug and had a flash back of being molested as a child. Her sister went to a fortune teller that told her that something had happened to her as a child that she was blocking that her sister had experienced to. She then went to accuse my grandfather, and one uncle, of abusing her. She accused my dad of trying to. And then finally accused me of abusing her son. How my parents handled it was that they phoned every parent of every child that I had been around or babysat and asked them to talk to there children. It was a confusing time. I appreciate my parents doing that and eventually my cousin apologized to me for the false accusation but to no one else. Today that side of my family is still a mess when all signs point to her father being the perpetrator... It is hard for victims to even admit that a close loved one can do this and they lash out at the wrong people that could be the most help. Sad and not okay but they really are confused.

So I do understand what it is like to be falsely accused. I to this day have not had the same relationship with any children, even my own as close as I should have with hugging and etc..
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Soloist
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Soloist »

Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
This was a hard thing for me to accept about the Mennonites... the first one we went to was a mid range church more leaning to fundamentalism but still Mennonite... They didn't do background checks and let the children run loose outside after VBS. I still had my autistic son at the time and this wasn't possible for us so we pulled out children out of VBS.
I tried to let them know the danger of this having come from a church that just locked up someone for placing camera's in the female bathroom (youth worker). That church now has camera's in the building and a quite extensive background check.
The response to my concerns was sadly lacking. Mennonites are gentle as doves but not as wise as serpents.
So far among the conservatives there is a lack of background checks (not that it would pick up everything) and a naivety to worldly dangers.
How do you train your children not to take candy when the older members spoil the younger children? :roll:
There is a disconnect that I hope will change in the future.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Sudsy wrote:
RZehr wrote:
Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
It is assumed that if someone has a police record, we already know about it. Especially on this issue. We don't open positions to people who aren't members.
We try to get folk involved prior to formal membership and most come from the unchurched or other churched world. Our situation then is quite different from yours I think.
I think this may begin to shed a bit of light on some of the difference between contexts like yours, Sudsy, and the truly conservative/OO anabaptist contexts. Perhaps we can get to that after a bit. I don't mean to bunny trail.
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Josh »

Keystone Mennonite Fellowship and its subsidiary churches, schools, and other institutions uses Eastern’s guidelines plus an addendum in the back. I don’t have a scanned copy but any KMF church or school should have a few of the booklets on its bookshelf. All staff workers, teachers, and even volunteers have to sign and agree to the guidelines.

They also have a programme where they have a liaison with the state, and they also make sure the leadership of a church or school is already acquainted with local law enforcement. That way, they already know who to call if a problem is reported.

I think the guidelines are good - I’m still technically a mandated reporter since I keep my foster care licence alive, and in the past I’ve felt in an awkward spot when eg teaching VBS or a kid’s club since I could find myself forced to report against the wishes of the rest of my church. With Keystone/Eastern’s new guidelines, my state mandated reporting is completely aligned with the guidelines.

Quite a bit of this is specific to PA due to the new laws there. A good resource to talk to is the principal at Tidings of Peace Christian School.
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ragpicker
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by ragpicker »

mike wrote: There is an incredible amount of outcry, blame, and lynch-mob style vindictiveness toward the perpetrator of sexual crimes toward minors, even from Christians who believe in forgiveness and redemption. It is a human response that we all feel to some extent. But in my opinion it can distort and cloud over the many factors other than the sin of the perpetrator that led to such a situation. I also question how beneficial rage and vindictiveness toward the perpetrator is for the victim.

So on the one hand you have the cover-ups and the shielding of sexual predators. And on the other hand you have the lynch-mob mentality toward the perpetrators. Neither seem to be the way of Jesus.

What's the way of Jesus?
Gonna piggy back on this to say, in the past 3 years I came to realize that much of what we see is a spirit of revenge masquerading as a cry for justice. Turns my stomach.
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Hats Off
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Hats Off »

Wade wrote:
RZehr wrote:Wade I don't see what part of my post you are referencing. I don't understand your second sentence either. Could you clarify?
Maybe I misunderstood from this comment:
RZehr wrote: And I think peak outrage comes right before acceptance.
As I see you were talking about the world...

Because of the impression I took from that being said it just reminds of all the "God is love so he cannot hate" talk people give me. Recently a JW even got angry at me that his god would never send someone to hell because he is loving, when I didn't even say anything... Praying it was just the Spirits conviction.

I believe God abhors sin and we should too. That never means that we hate or lynch mob the sinner. To me that is where the difference in focus comes in. For example I believe God does hate murder but because He loves people.

We can chose to focus on repentance, healing, and forgiveness or we can focus on the sin and become angry.
Neglect is considered a form of abuse and so the thought of not focusing on the repentance, healing, and forgiveness side could come across as condoning and worse than being angry. Sometimes repentance and healing requires some putting out of people that might look like "outrage" but we should always hate sin and do this because we love that sinner and want his repentance ultimately, in junction with the healing of others too. People should feel protected and comfortable in the church as unfortunately the victims of these sins often feel unnecessary guilt for years from it because the fact it came from someone they should trust they have a hard time turning to anyone for the needed help, especially if it isn't dealt with immediately.
These types of sins should never be taken lightly, but not to say that you wouldn't do just that.

And I've been told sex education is now being taught in the public schools starting with children at age five. I don't think sexual abuse is a very worried about thing in society much anymore actually...



And BTW: When I was 15 one of my cousins took an hallucinogenic drug and had a flash back of being molested as a child. Her sister went to a fortune teller that told her that something had happened to her as a child that she was blocking that her sister had experienced to. She then went to accuse my grandfather, and one uncle, of abusing her. She accused my dad of trying to. And then finally accused me of abusing her son. How my parents handled it was that they phoned every parent of every child that I had been around or babysat and asked them to talk to there children. It was a confusing time. I appreciate my parents doing that and eventually my cousin apologized to me for the false accusation but to no one else. Today that side of my family is still a mess when all signs point to her father being the perpetrator... It is hard for victims to even admit that a close loved one can do this and they lash out at the wrong people that could be the most help. Sad and not okay but they really are confused.

So I do understand what it is like to be falsely accused. I to this day have not had the same relationship with any children, even my own as close as I should have with hugging and etc..
I have a sister-in-law whose home I will not visit unless other men are present. The police record checks unfortunately do not say enough. It says I was accused - but it does not follow up with the message that their investigation failed to find any wrong doing on my part. The police told me I should have her charged for what she did to me and my family.
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Neto
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Neto »

I hadn't seen this thread until now - the post I made in the other thread would have fit here better.
Neto wrote:This is only marginally related to this thread, but a Bible college friend had linked to this article on FaceBook.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... ospel.html

Here is one quotation I thought was pertinent to the discussion here, especially as referring to the case of which Josh has spoken.
First, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not need your protection. It defies the gospel of Christ when we do not call out abuse and enable abuse in our own church. Jesus Christ does not need your protection; he needs your obedience.
Note: If you want to read this, and cannot access this article for some reason, I have saved a PDF copy, and will email it to anyone who requests it. I won't past it in here, because it might be a violation of copyright law.
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