Sexual abuse in Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:Many of the more strict churches have very slow membership for outsiders. Many of the more strict churches also seem to have an abuse problem.

Myself, when I was joining a moderately conservative church (which took 2 years), I ended up pulling out at the last minute when it was clear an abuser would never be excommunicated - all he had to was apologise (or not even that) and it was business as usual.

Perhaps Wade and myself should recognise God’s grace and mercy for pulling us out of those situations. I chose to be consumed by anger and resentment instead. Praise the Lord for his mercy in delivering me from those feelings and sins, and for eventually providing me a wonderful church home.
Whenever I hear of not accepting a repentant sinner as if they had never sinned, I think of the prodigal son story.

Did the father say -

I'll forgive you and you can come back and join the family but first you will have to put up with not being treated like your elder brother. You will have to earn our trust that you won't do this again. You embarrassed our family and you hurt us and our reputation. There will be some positions now in the family that you can never have. What you did will be forgiven but never forgotten. Just stay in the background as we don't consider you a member of our family yet. Maybe at some later date. You should have known better. Your mom and I are very disappointed in you.

or did the father -

But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. And the son said unto him, ‘Father, I have sinned against Heaven and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.’ But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring forth the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet. And bring hither the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

A few questions to consider - Could the prodigal son have come home and again not do what was the expected norm of that community ? Could he have embarrassed the family once again ? Did he deserve to be thrown a welcome home party ? Was the father not loving his son without some kind of punishment ?

And who was more inclined to disagree with the father ? The elder son who didn't even want to recognize him as a brother 'this son of yours'. He was an angry, faithfully obedient son that thought this treatment was unfair. This prodigal had not earned the right to be fully installed back into the family. I never got a party thrown for me.

Something to think about. I was one of these prodigal sons and so glad I was lead to Christians who reflected this father's welcome back. Jesus is tenderly calling - come home, come home. I will receive you just come home.
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mike
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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Wouldn't you agree though, Sudsy, that a former perpetrator of sexual abuse cannot, perhaps ever, hold a position of authority within a church even though repentant?
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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mike wrote:Wouldn't you agree though, Sudsy, that a former perpetrator of sexual abuse cannot, perhaps ever, hold a position of authority within a church even though repentant?
Mike, by your question, I take it that would be your position. What would you base this on, Scripturally?
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ohio jones
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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Sudsy wrote:
Josh wrote:Myself, when I was joining a moderately conservative church (which took 2 years), I ended up pulling out at the last minute when it was clear an abuser would never be excommunicated - all he had to was apologise (or not even that) and it was business as usual.
Whenever I hear of not accepting a repentant sinner as if they had never sinned, I think of the prodigal son story.
I think Josh means that this person was not really repentant, but was just saying what was necessary to avoid disciplinary action. Abusers can become quite skilled at manipulating not only their victims, but church leaders as well.
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mike
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by mike »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
mike wrote:Wouldn't you agree though, Sudsy, that a former perpetrator of sexual abuse cannot, perhaps ever, hold a position of authority within a church even though repentant?
Mike, by your question, I take it that would be your position. What would you base this on, Scripturally?
Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect... He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace...

In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect... They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
Repentance does not erase past conduct or the consequences of one's actions. There are levels of severity of sexual abuse. I am not sure where the line should be. But there are definitely levels of abuse that, in my mind, make a person ineligible for holding church office for life even if thoroughly repented from.
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

mike wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote:
mike wrote:Wouldn't you agree though, Sudsy, that a former perpetrator of sexual abuse cannot, perhaps ever, hold a position of authority within a church even though repentant?
Mike, by your question, I take it that would be your position. What would you base this on, Scripturally?
Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect... He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace...

In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect... They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
Repentance does not erase past conduct or the consequences of one's actions. There are levels of severity of sexual abuse. I am not sure where the line should be. But there are definitely levels of abuse that, in my mind, make a person ineligible for holding church office for life even if thoroughly repented from.
Sorry Mike, missed your post. Yes I agree that although God forgives us as if we never sinned and our sins are in the sea of His forgetfulness, there are qualifications for these leading roles you mentioned. I don't think we can take the prodigal son story to override these qualifications.

However, we also should have a forgiving spirit towards those who were involved at some point in sexual abuse and have repented. Jesus said to pray to forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us. The abused and those aware of the abuse need to receive God's grace, His enabling power, to not be like the elder brother. A child abuser has given way to an evil thought and acted on it. God still loves and accepts that repenting sinner. We are to do likewise. Not once or twice but '70 times 7'.
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Josh »

Forgiveness does not mean enabling an abuser or making it easy for them to offend again.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Bootstrap »

Where sexual abuse is present, it is probably not the only thing that needs to be repented of. Especially when a leader engages in blatant abuse with multiple victims, there's a problem with the entire understanding of leadership and the structure of leadership.

I once joined a church where a man in the Sunday School class seemed to know much more about the Bible than most people and clearly had some seminary background. After a while I asked him about it, and he told me that he was the former pastor of this congregation, had fallen into adultery, and had been restored to the fellowship, and also said that this had betrayed the trust of the congregation to the point that he felt he would never again be able to lead the church. This was a very healthy church, and I think his perspective was spot-on.

I agree with Mike that it's important to look at the severity of the abuse. But you can forgive someone without making him your leader, and if you do, you need to be sure he won't establish the same kind of leadership structure that caused the problem - and perhaps other problems that people aren't as aware of. Sometimes forgiveness also realizes that leadership is not his role in the Body of Christ.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Bootstrap »

Any time there's a long list of victims, there are problems with all of us, not just our leaders. In the secular world, think of Larry Nassar and the gymnasts - why didn't people listen to the gymnasts? Why didn't they realize that the things they were saying might well indicate something bad was going on? Sure, Larry Nassar bears the primary responsibility, but the whole Olympic gymnastics community bears significant blame for this.

The church I was part of was extreme, they actually taught that if your head told you to do something that felt wrong to you, you should trust your head, and God would honor your obedience even if the head was wrong. They used the example of Sarah's obedience to Abraham, saying that she did right when she claimed to be Abraham's sister instead of his wife, letting herself be taken into Pharaoh's house. I always considered that a heretical teaching, and said so at the time, but it was the official teaching of the community, and the leaders took advantage of it.

I'm guessing that few Mennonite churches have that kind of teaching, but we all have a tendency to trust leaders implicitly, and we often have a tendency to dismiss the feelings and complaints of children. Where are the boundaries between Gelassenheit and individuals developing their own sense of right and wrong from an early age? We certainly don't want our communities to be full of mutual suspicion, deep trust is essential for deep fellowship, but how can you have deep trust and still have your eyes open? Now that our eyes have been opened to sin among us, what should we be learning about how to build communities of true righteousness?
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Josh »

In my opinion, proper church discipline (with excommunication and restoration) is the proper way to do things. Unfortunately, in most settings, it's almost extinct.
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