Sexual abuse in Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Chris
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Chris »

Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
Perhaps this is bad for me to say, so please forgive in advance.... But if we are at the point of needing to go to worldly sources such as the police to pull background checks on bros/sisters to make sure they aren't going to be touching the children, I start really questioning the point of church altogether.

Intimately open our lives up? Check. Share in the Lord's supper? Check. Wash each other's feet? Check. Accountable to each other? Check. "Hey let's do a police check on...... because he may be near children".... Stop the presses.
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Chris
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Chris »

Josh wrote:Many of the more strict churches have very slow membership for outsiders. Many of the more strict churches also seem to have an abuse problem.

Myself, when I was joining a moderately conservative church (which took 2 years), I ended up pulling out at the last minute when it was clear an abuser would never be excommunicated - all he had to was apologise (or not even that) and it was business as usual.

Perhaps Wade and myself should recognise God’s grace and mercy for pulling us out of those situations. I chose to be consumed by anger and resentment instead. Praise the Lord for his mercy in delivering me from those feelings and sins, and for eventually providing me a wonderful church home.
See this would never fly for me. If there is somebody who molests, they get the cops called on them. They better hope the cops get there before they get a millstone. They can apologize, I can forgive, but there is no room for that kind of behavior.
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

Chris wrote:
Sudsy wrote:One thing we do in our MB church is that anyone who wants to be involved in any children ministries must first pass a police check on their police record. Is this something other Anabaptists do or is it just assumed no one has a police record ?
Perhaps this is bad for me to say, so please forgive in advance.... But if we are at the point of needing to go to worldly sources such as the police to pull background checks on bros/sisters to make sure they aren't going to be touching the children, I start really questioning the point of church altogether.

Intimately open our lives up? Check. Share in the Lord's supper? Check. Wash each other's feet? Check. Accountable to each other? Check. "Hey let's do a police check on...... because he may be near children".... Stop the presses.
To try to clarify, I didn't say those who want to be involved in children ministries are leaders in those ministries or even Christians. Many of the unchurched today want some kind of comfort that allowing their children to participate in a children's church program will have some protection and with the record of too many church events being areas of abuse the police check is mainly for their comfort. We do what ever we can to welcome the unchurched and sometimes these unchurched parents will even come and sit in the background watching what goes on. This is a great opportunity for these parents to hear about Jesus and some have become Christ followers through these children programs.

Hope this clarifies but if not, ask further.
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Peregrino
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Peregrino »

So exactly what should an ethnic church community report to government authorities? What should be handled in house and what should be turned over to the law of the land? Are there guidelines for that anywhere?
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Neto
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Neto »

Peregrino wrote:So exactly what should an ethnic church community report to government authorities? What should be handled in house and what should be turned over to the law of the land? Are there guidelines for that anywhere?
I would think that any moral wrong that is also against civil law should be reported to civil authorities. Of course the preference would be that the guilty party would make confession, and then turn themselves in to the authorities.
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Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
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Hats Off
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Hats Off »

All criminal activity needs to be reported to government. If not sure if it is actually criminal, it is better to be safe than sorry.
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Hats Off
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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I just read this afternoon about abuse that happened in a number of different New Tribes Mission schools, in the Philippines, In Papua New Guinea, in Senegal and East Brazil. The MK's forum that I stumbled upon tells horrible stories of all kinds of abuse. They indicate that US leadership 20 - 30 years ago was very reluctant and slow to respond to reports of abuse and sometimes waited years to remove abusers from their positions as dorm parents or as missionaries. It appears that many parents did not really believe the children.

It may be difficult to see someone we know and respect as an abuser and it may be easier to believe adults than children but we simply cannot afford to not take action. Any organization to date that has tried to hide or in any way over up abuse, has found that the faster they respond, the better it will be for them. We know that abuse can and will happen but to ignore it or gloss over it is just simply too wrong.
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Peregrino
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Peregrino »

OK, I am definitely on board with reporting any criminal activity to law enforcement. My question is, what constitutes criminal sexual activity? Where can I find those guidelines clearly defined?

Also, how do you respond to church officials who say that the results of turning an abuser over to the law would be much worse than trying to handle it in house, along with strong cautions to the church to make sure nothing ever gets out to the public, for the sake of the abuser's reputation and "the witness of the church"?
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RZehr
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by RZehr »

I'm not sure if I agree that it is our duty to report all criminal activity to the police. I've had things stolen from me and talked with the thief and didn't turn him in. I know that many people are strong proponents of immediately turning to the police.

But I believe that 1 Corinthians 6 should be considered as well. "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?"

I am not saying that we are forbidden from ever turning a case into the police. But I am tapping the brakes on the issue a little bit.
As far as the churches testimony, I think that is not correct thinking. Our testimony is not one of perfection. I wouldn't broadcast the situation to the four winds, but nor would I go to much effort to hide what happened. I think if people outside the church ask about it, it is our duty to give them answers. Let reputations be reflective of truth.

If the police come and ask questions, answer them. We shouldn't hide, or cover up things from them. And I think if the police decide to take action it should be their prerogative and duty, not ours.
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Sudsy »

RZehr wrote:I'm not sure if I agree that it is our duty to report all criminal activity to the police. I've had things stolen from me and talked with the thief and didn't turn him in. I know that many people are strong proponents of immediately turning to the police.

But I believe that 1 Corinthians 6 should be considered as well. "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?"

I am not saying that we are forbidden from ever turning a case into the police. But I am tapping the brakes on the issue a little bit.
As far as the churches testimony, I think that is not correct thinking. Our testimony is not one of perfection. I wouldn't broadcast the situation to the four winds, but nor would I go to much effort to hide what happened. I think if people outside the church ask about it, it is our duty to give them answers. Let reputations be reflective of truth.

If the police come and ask questions, answer them. We shouldn't hide, or cover up things from them. And I think if the police decide to take action it should be their prerogative and duty, not ours.
Perhaps 1 Cor 6 was partly why women didn't report what John Howard Yoder did -

https://themennonite.org/feature/failur ... ual-abuse/
More than 100 women experienced unwanted sexual violations by Yoder, ranging across a spectrum from sexual harassment in public places to, more rarely, sexual intercourse. With no legal charges ever filed, adjudication took place in seminary offices, conference quarters and living rooms—often involving Mennonites connected to Yoder through congregational associations or even family relationships.
Over 100 abused women and not one legally charged John. It would be interesting to know why each of these did not go to the police. How much was to protect the perceived image of an esteemed leader and writer ? How many were afraid of being shunned due to lack of evidence ? How many thought their submissive role as women included these actions ? Do Anabaptist men and women today understand what 'unwanted sexual violations' include ?
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