Sexual abuse in Churches

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Josh »

The homosexual networks are in all the churches without a doubt. MC-USA, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodists, the Baptists; no one is without this presence of abomination.
While I will be the first to proclaim that plain people have their problems and challenges with abusers, perpetrators, and cover-ups, I feel quite confident saying that we do not have a homosexual network that has infiltrated the power structure of my own plain church group or others with which I am familiar. Part of this is that we don't have things like full-time paid ministers and seminaries. I would freely acknowledge that the groups you listed (MC USA, the PC USA) are fully infiltrated, and the United Methodist Church is currently in a fight for its life against those who are trying to infiltrate and seize it.

Ultimately, the only answer is one of brotherhood accountability and a willingness to discipline and excommunicate those who engage in unrepentant homosexual behaviour, or choose to adopt a homosexual identity and refuse to repent. Currently, the broader evangelical world is under attack from attempts to normalise a homosexual identity via the "Side B" movement. I have my doubts that they will be able to remain strong.
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francis
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by francis »

Just as many young girls were abused, if not more. It's not some gay lobby anymore than a straight lobby. Homosexual men are not attracted to young boys anymore than heterosexual men are attracted to young girls. It's one thing to criticize the progressive wing, but kicking out progressives won't solve the abuse problem and it's dangerous to assume that.
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Reflecting
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Reflecting »

francis wrote:Just as many young girls were abused, if not more. It's not some gay lobby anymore than a straight lobby. Homosexual men are not attracted to young boys anymore than heterosexual men are attracted to young girls. It's one thing to criticize the progressive wing, but kicking out progressives won't solve the abuse problem and it's dangerous to assume that.
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Signtist
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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The OP specifically asks we do not debate the percentage of people who have been sexually abused. I would like to ask a question about it if I may.

I had a chat about this subject with my pastor one time, and he firmly believes the number is not as high as some of us think it is. And he should know our church better than I do, he’s certainly been here longer.

Would there be any value in doing an anonymous poll on this matter in a church? Would people answer? And if they did, what use would you make of the stats? Eg: if it’s even 18% we need to discuss this more and consider more teaching and finding ways to intentionally speak into abused peoples lives. Or “if it’s ‘only’ 5% we feel like carrying on like we always have is ok.

Would there be value in it? Or would we rather not know? Would it open many other cans of worms that we are not prepared to take the kids off of?
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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Signtist wrote:Would there be any value in doing an anonymous poll on this matter in a church? Would people answer? And if they did, what use would you make of the stats? Eg: if it’s even 18% we need to discuss this more and consider more teaching and finding ways to intentionally speak into abused peoples lives. Or “if it’s ‘only’ 5% we feel like carrying on like we always have is ok.

Would there be value in it? Or would we rather not know? Would it open many other cans of worms that we are not prepared to take the kids off of?
There's a signtific question here. If you want accurate answers, I think you should take a look at the work of Elizabeth Loftus on ways to structure interviews in order to give you accurate memories. Anonymous polls won't give you accurate information. The kind of interview that seeks to discover any possible hidden abuse won't either. Look up her name and read her papers.
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Signtist
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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Goody, goody! Just what I wanted: homework!
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Bootstrap »

Signtist wrote:Goody, goody! Just what I wanted: homework!
Let me try to summarize badly based on my memory ... but Elizabeth Loftus would point out my memory is flawed in many predictable ways, so consider yourself warned ;->

Even anonymous polls generally reflect what the pollster wanted to hear because people imagine themselves writing their answers to someone. In a smaller church, they may also think about the effect their answers might have on the church or worrying about what happens if their answer results in some kind of investigation. So if an anonymous poll comes back clean, I don't think that means your church is clean. If you tell people to search themselves carefully to see if they can remember any hint of past sexual abuse, and that shows up on your anonymous poll, that may also be an artifact of what you did.

In general, interviews are better than polls for this kind of information, but that can't be anonymous and the interviewer can easily influence results. Interviewers need to be trained to do this well because it's very easy to plant memories or suppress them. Remember false memory syndrome? The opposite also happens. And both happen with well-intentioned interviewers.

Elizabeth Loftus started out with eyewitness testimony in court. In one of her experiments she showed several mock juries a film of a car driving through an intersection and hitting another car. In some mock juries, a lawyer asked if the car had stopped at the stop sign. Almost everyone on these juries clearly remembered the car ignoring the stop sign and driving straight into the other car. There was no stop sign in the film.

It's very easy to influence people's memories in one way or another. The most accurate way to get memories was simply to ask people to tell the whole story from start to finish, asking them to fill in detail without suggesting the answer. "Was there a stop sign?" is fine, but even then you want to wait until they tell you about the car at the intersection because their memories will be most accurate if they tell the narrative in the way they remember it.

In the long run, one of the best things you can do is make sure that everyone knows it is always safe to tell anything that is disturbing and encourage people to share their daily experiences with each other. And to also make sure there are safe adults in addition to the parents in the lives of each child. But that's hard.

None of this is easy.
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MaxPC
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by MaxPC »

Signtist wrote:... what use would you make of the stats? Eg: if it’s even 18% we need to discuss this more and consider more teaching and finding ways to intentionally speak into abused peoples lives. Or “if it’s ‘only’ 5% we feel like carrying on like we always have is ok.
Signtist, the bolded portion of your statement resonated with some of my own thoughts. My thinking of late has been that whether in the pulpit, the prayer circles, or the dinner table, this subject is not discussed enough; rather it's avoided as much as possible. One example is that homosexuality in particular seems to be avoided in the Scripture readings in church yet it's quite clear that in Scripture it's condemned as an abomination.

Sometimes the excuses used to avoid the discussion is the discomfort of people in the pews. Or the presence of small children. There are ways to train small children to recognize "bad touching" and other overtures without having a sexually explicit lesson. As to the discomfort of the people in the pews: well, aren't we supposed to be challenged by our shepherds/pastors/priests frequently?

I've said this before and I think it bears repetition: Complacency is the destroyer of discipleship to Christ.
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

Post by Josh »

francis wrote:Just as many young girls were abused, if not more. It's not some gay lobby anymore than a straight lobby. Homosexual men are not attracted to young boys anymore than heterosexual men are attracted to young girls. It's one thing to criticize the progressive wing, but kicking out progressives won't solve the abuse problem and it's dangerous to assume that.
Francis, that's a nice opinion promoted by the homosexual lobby, but is untrue. Homosexuals are notorious for preying on young teenage boys and "recruiting" them / training them into a homosexual lifestyle. The archbishop above is trying to draw attention to this horrific practice.
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Josh
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Re: Sexual abuse in Churches

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Reflecting wrote:
francis wrote:Just as many young girls were abused, if not more. It's not some gay lobby anymore than a straight lobby. Homosexual men are not attracted to young boys anymore than heterosexual men are attracted to young girls. It's one thing to criticize the progressive wing, but kicking out progressives won't solve the abuse problem and it's dangerous to assume that.
Kicking out the progressives does solve the problem of homosexual behaviour in church, which is definitely a problem. I'm surprised francis's attitude to coddle active homosexuals and progressives.
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