Anabaptist Evangelism

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
silentreader
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by silentreader »

silentreader wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:A reply to something Wayne said -



When I speak of a "personal relationship" with God, I'm thinking about what Jesus had with the Father. Jesus did not suggest everything we do be a community involvement. He said, go into your closest to pray (be alone with God). Don't do your giving to be seen by men. Don't let on that you are fasting. And Jesus often went aside to be alone to talk with the Father. These are things I see as a 'personal relationship' with God. There is a very individual walk with God required while also being part of a community of believers. It sounds sometimes like the community thing is put higher than this one on one with God. Just do what the community agrees on and God will be pleased. But I think Jesus said He didn't do anything that He didn't first see the Father doing. Being alone with the Father was extremely important to His ministry.

I believe today Jesus left us with the Holy Spirit to guide us. The Spirit guides each of us as He sees fit, gives out gifts as He determines and has His own timings and ways in our sanctification. That is why I support a church that is unified in allowing the Holy Spirit to do what He does best. Preach the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to direct each one in their practise.

But getting back to evangelism, what do we think the world is looking for in a walk with God ? I don't believe they are that drawn to God through many of our practises. So, why do we continue with them ? They haven't reached the unchurched in the past and what is different today ?

Got to go for now, our house is full of women.
And you have no room, I take it? :lol:
Tupperware party maybe.
I'm a little disappointed, actually. I thought maybe at the sound of THAT WORD, jm might magically appear and say, "Who called me!?"
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Josh »

There’s really only one thing that works, and when I see Anabaptists doing this, they are vital and alive:

Every member’s life (or most members’) must be completely consumed by a desire to share the good news in any way possible. Discussions at the dinner table, with family, after church, and at fellowship meals revolve around mission work, tract work, outreach work, relief work, how we can try to be a witness at our job, asking for prayer to be a better witness to unsaved family, praying together for Jesus to bring more people to himself.

When seekers do come our way, hospitality is extended because that’s what Jesus would do. We keep discussing and talking how we can make sure our culture does not become a barrier to seekers, both the ones we have and the ones still out there we haven’t found yet.

I have been in a few settings where this was the norm, and amongst many varieties of Anabaptists. (Some non-Anabaptists do this too, and God also blesses their efforts.) I have also been in a setting where I was the odd man out for caring about or thinking about such things. Such a place turned out to be quite spiritually dead.

This cannot be faked or reliably passed on to another generation, unless parents genuinely have the passion and honest hearts to do this. If they do, their children who choose to follow God will pick it up too. If they don’t, their future congregation will be as dead as a doornail in a few generations.
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Sudsy
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:There’s really only one thing that works, and when I see Anabaptists doing this, they are vital and alive:

Every member’s life (or most members’) must be completely consumed by a desire to share the good news in any way possible. Discussions at the dinner table, with family, after church, and at fellowship meals revolve around mission work, tract work, outreach work, relief work, how we can try to be a witness at our job, asking for prayer to be a better witness to unsaved family, praying together for Jesus to bring more people to himself.

When seekers do come our way, hospitality is extended because that’s what Jesus would do. We keep discussing and talking how we can make sure our culture does not become a barrier to seekers, both the ones we have and the ones still out there we haven’t found yet.

I have been in a few settings where this was the norm, and amongst many varieties of Anabaptists. (Some non-Anabaptists do this too, and God also blesses their efforts.) I have also been in a setting where I was the odd man out for caring about or thinking about such things. Such a place turned out to be quite spiritually dead.

This cannot be faked or reliably passed on to another generation, unless parents genuinely have the passion and honest hearts to do this. If they do, their children who choose to follow God will pick it up too. If they don’t, their future congregation will be as dead as a doornail in a few generations.
Josh, I was blessed for a few years to participate in a church like you described. Sadly at a point, the desire to reach the lost got sidetracked by what I would call 'comfortable fellowship' within the group that this new church had become. We lost our first love for Christ in making Him known to others. But during those years of a spiritually alive and 'on fire' church, we experienced that abundant life available in Christ. What did occur though was when some moved on to other churches they became key players in a revival in those churches.

Some are already so 'spiritually dead' it doesn't even seem to matter that they are not reaching the unchurched. For them Christianity is more about churchianity and holding on to the local body of believers by various means. How precise they follow the Lord as if Christianity is all about us. That certainly isn't the way of the Master.

I love the way you expressed an alive church, especially what I bolded above. We have lots going on in our MB church covering all ages and although this is great and there is a trickle of the unchurched being reached, we still do not have the fervor you talk about. My parents had it and lived it every day. I'm hoping and praying through the good teachings we have been getting that revival breaks out. I do see some signs and hunger for it.

You know what that kind of Christianity is about and so do I and once you taste it you just want more and more. When Christianity is primarily about the salvation of others, what an abundant life it is !
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Sudsy
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Tupperware party maybe.
No a moving away party. Seems quite often as we get older more of my age group go back to living closer to where their children and grand children live. That is how we got our townhouse. Our previous MB pastor moved back out west and we bought his townhouse and tried to downsize from the home we owned a couple blocks away. However, these townhomes are not much of a downsizing and still is far more than what the two of us need.

But the women all cleared out about 10 PM and left me a whole lot of weight gaining food. What a dilemma.

Dilemma - definition - for my Jewish friends - "free pork". :laugh
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Josh »

A mystery to me is how many people with quite poor theology manage to get this right, for example, some of my Oneness Apostolic friends. And the Lord seems to bless their focus. The rest of us would do well to learn from them (including their theological simplicity, which seems to be closer to Jesus’ heart than complex orthodoxy).
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Joy
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Joy »

Josh wrote:A mystery to me is how many people with quite poor theology manage to get this right, for example, some of my Oneness Apostolic friends. And the Lord seems to bless their focus. The rest of us would do well to learn from them (including their theological simplicity, which seems to be closer to Jesus’ heart than complex orthodoxy).
Yes, not that I'm familiar with that group, but I've observed some Christians that have what it appears to be unscriptural (non-major) doctrines, and yet have such hearts for the Lord that they are producing lasting fruit for Him. So I rejoice that God is using them for His kingdom. He may have a different perspective than our limited take on them. And they even may realize greater rewards when that time comes. More power to them.
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Sudsy
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Sudsy »

It might be interesting to ask our bishop/pastor/priest what he thinks is the reason we are not seeing the unchurched becoming followers of Jesus in our church communities. But then again, if these leaders have removed themselves so far from the world to understand why the unchurched are not attracted to the light of the Gospel, then I suspect they don't know either.

I have been in church groups where what you say (proclaim the Gospel) was more the focus than how you live. And also been in church groups where how you live was the focus more than what you say (the old phrase 'when all else fails use words'). Yet both of these approaches often did not result in new converts from the unchurched masses of people. And others where there was some degree of both and still Kingdom growth in numbers did not occur in their church communities.

So, what is missing ? I guess I could become a Calvinist and conclude I am just not living close to any that God has chosen to save and will save. And perhaps, this is more indicative of our expectations than believing the harvest is ripe to be harvested.

Still searching for more answers or ideas on what might be the issue(s) for such a lack in Anabaptist evangelism results among the unchurched.
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Wade
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Wade »

Sudsy wrote:It might be interesting to ask our bishop/pastor/priest what he thinks is the reason we are not seeing the unchurched becoming followers of Jesus in our church communities. But then again, if these leaders have removed themselves so far from the world to understand why the unchurched are not attracted to the light of the Gospel, then I suspect they don't know either.

I have been in church groups where what you say (proclaim the Gospel) was more the focus than how you live. And also been in church groups where how you live was the focus more than what you say (the old phrase 'when all else fails use words'). Yet both of these approaches often did not result in new converts from the unchurched masses of people. And others where there was some degree of both and still Kingdom growth in numbers did not occur in their church communities.

So, what is missing ? I guess I could become a Calvinist and conclude I am just not living close to any that God has chosen to save and will save. And perhaps, this is more indicative of our expectations than believing the harvest is ripe to be harvested.

Still searching for more answers or ideas on what might be the issue(s) for such a lack in Anabaptist evangelism results among the unchurched.
I can't speak for all other unchurched people. But this might help to see where someone with similar background to me is coming from:
My family comes from a background of a few generations of redneck loggers. Hard physical labour doesn't scare them but books, reading, and computers do. When I was a boy it wasn't much when my dad's four brothers to come over and re-roofed the house in less than a day. My dad admittedly laughs that the only saw he is any good with is a chain saw. My grandfather Bill Hicks with his animal mounts all over his living room always preached, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."
Sitting down for an hour sermon on Sunday is much harder to get through than chopping a couple cord of wood. Maybe this is why I have much difficulty with talk and walk that don't match - those of us from this background may want to see and do more than we hear or think. Most of us will not come and if we do we can get tired of talking and leave if we aren't included in the work rather quickly.
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silentreader
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by silentreader »

Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote:It might be interesting to ask our bishop/pastor/priest what he thinks is the reason we are not seeing the unchurched becoming followers of Jesus in our church communities. But then again, if these leaders have removed themselves so far from the world to understand why the unchurched are not attracted to the light of the Gospel, then I suspect they don't know either.

I have been in church groups where what you say (proclaim the Gospel) was more the focus than how you live. And also been in church groups where how you live was the focus more than what you say (the old phrase 'when all else fails use words'). Yet both of these approaches often did not result in new converts from the unchurched masses of people. And others where there was some degree of both and still Kingdom growth in numbers did not occur in their church communities.

So, what is missing ? I guess I could become a Calvinist and conclude I am just not living close to any that God has chosen to save and will save. And perhaps, this is more indicative of our expectations than believing the harvest is ripe to be harvested.

Still searching for more answers or ideas on what might be the issue(s) for such a lack in Anabaptist evangelism results among the unchurched.
I can't speak for all other unchurched people. But this might help to see where someone with similar background to me is coming from:
My family comes from a background of a few generations of redneck loggers. Hard physical labour doesn't scare them but books, reading, and computers do. When I was a boy it wasn't much when my dad's four brothers to come over and re-roofed the house in less than a day. My dad admittedly laughs that the only saw he is any good with is a chain saw. My grandfather Bill Hicks with his animal mounts all over his living room always preached, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."
Sitting down for an hour sermon on Sunday is much harder to get through than chopping a couple cord of wood. Maybe this is why I have much difficulty with talk and walk that don't match - those of us from this background may want to see and do more than we hear or think. Most of us will not come and if we do we can get tired of talking and leave if we aren't included in the work rather quickly.
Well, we didn't do quite as well maybe, my wife and I and our 4 daughters, one of whom was several months pregnant at the time, and 3 son-in-laws took less than a day to strip off 2 layers of old shingles and re-shingle our roof. And we all like books and reading, and computers more-or-less.
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Wade
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Re: Anabaptist Evangelism

Post by Wade »

silentreader wrote:
Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote:It might be interesting to ask our bishop/pastor/priest what he thinks is the reason we are not seeing the unchurched becoming followers of Jesus in our church communities. But then again, if these leaders have removed themselves so far from the world to understand why the unchurched are not attracted to the light of the Gospel, then I suspect they don't know either.

I have been in church groups where what you say (proclaim the Gospel) was more the focus than how you live. And also been in church groups where how you live was the focus more than what you say (the old phrase 'when all else fails use words'). Yet both of these approaches often did not result in new converts from the unchurched masses of people. And others where there was some degree of both and still Kingdom growth in numbers did not occur in their church communities.

So, what is missing ? I guess I could become a Calvinist and conclude I am just not living close to any that God has chosen to save and will save. And perhaps, this is more indicative of our expectations than believing the harvest is ripe to be harvested.

Still searching for more answers or ideas on what might be the issue(s) for such a lack in Anabaptist evangelism results among the unchurched.
I can't speak for all other unchurched people. But this might help to see where someone with similar background to me is coming from:
My family comes from a background of a few generations of redneck loggers. Hard physical labour doesn't scare them but books, reading, and computers do. When I was a boy it wasn't much when my dad's four brothers to come over and re-roofed the house in less than a day. My dad admittedly laughs that the only saw he is any good with is a chain saw. My grandfather Bill Hicks with his animal mounts all over his living room always preached, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."
Sitting down for an hour sermon on Sunday is much harder to get through than chopping a couple cord of wood. Maybe this is why I have much difficulty with talk and walk that don't match - those of us from this background may want to see and do more than we hear or think. Most of us will not come and if we do we can get tired of talking and leave if we aren't included in the work rather quickly.
Well, we didn't do quite as well maybe, my wife and I and our 4 daughters, one of whom was several months pregnant at the time, and 3 son-in-laws took less than a day to strip off 2 layers of old shingles and re-shingle our roof. And we all like books and reading, and computers more-or-less.
I don't think I have done as well as that generation either. I like the story for the idea that goes along with it the sense of brothers helping each other too, which I grew up taking for granted.
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