S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by temporal1 »

interesting that there has not been one mention of modest clothing or any personal responsibility of victims in this thread.

in my mind, this is quite important.
prior to the internet, victim shaming was COMMON, even when the victims were young children.
“he wouldn’t have done that if you had not” .. :(

it twists my brain a bit.
as this thread is documenting, without argument, sexual abuse occurs in all settings, all church denoms, all sub groups, spin-offs. not far from where i live, there is a new report about an errant priest. the Catholic priest abuse scandal is not past-tense. presently, abuse is a hot topic in hollywood, Congress, private business, medicine.

in my mind, there is no longer any reason for any group to feel uniquely ashamed (as some here have shared they do feel it very personally.) i pray widespread recognition does not have the awful outcome of normalizing abuse! (but, i’m well-aware, there are amoral fringe parties who work for that very end goal.)

all that being said, what is to be thought about conservative/modest dress? :?
it does not guarantee safety. what does it do?

when our daughter was entering middle school, 1980’s, she liked volleyball. :D
she wanted to play.
this was public school, volleyball was ok with us. we dressed tastefully/conservatively, but did not know anything about “plain” dress, covering, or scriptural guidelines for dress.

suddenly, our daughter surprised us with, “i’m not going to play volleyball.” it was over.
she had not started.
we asked, “why?! what happened?”
she was a bit shy. eventually said, “they look like they are playing in their underpants.” :-|

well. she was right. we did not mention it again.
i’m not sure when that style came about for volleyball. it wasn’t always that way.

gymnasts wear far less. often, very young girls. i’m not comfortable watching.
yes, they are accomplished. i appreciate that. i don’t agree with such radical/gratuitous exposure.

on the other hand, the most modest dress is no guarantee.

i have 2 beliefs that seem opposed to some, i attempt to explain. not feeling great success.
1. i do not believe abuse victims should be shamed for their choices, no choice justifies abuse;
at the same time,
2. i believe it is important to make personal choices that will please God.

i just returned from visiting my daughter and granddaughter, now 10.
i had an opportunity to discuss with my grdaughter, making personal choices to please God.
this, in dress, in thought, and in spoken words. happily, my grdaughter is sensitive to the idea of pleasing God in her young life. she’s at ease thinking about and discussing God.

they dress nicely. they are comfortable dressing conservatively.
these were not talks in disagreement. more, articulating and confirming beliefs. on a young level. not taking for granted that “everyone knows.” everyone doesn’t know. there is need to know.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Joy
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Joy »

Joy wrote:
Hats Off wrote:
Joy wrote:Can't recall if I've shared this or not, but I'll relate it without comment. A pastor in another state shared with me that one of his daughters had been molested by his father-in-law, a respected father of several in Christian ministry. The abuser later admitted to his son-in-law that it was only when he was in prison and all these criminals looked down on him, that he realized what an egregious sin he had committed against his granddaughter and against the Lord.
And because of men like this I can not hug my grandchildren after they are about 6 to 8. Regardless of how much I may have wanted to, I cannot hug or even touch my daughter. We live in fear of being accused of being a molester. I just cannot fathom anyone molesting a daughter or granddaughter and not realizing how serious this is.
Rationalizing...lying to one's self...knowing other men have done it and gotten away with it.
Several years ago a BA man whom I'd met on another forum took it upon himself to mentor me, for some reason, on sexuality. He stated, as best I can recall, "Under the Law, men were seldom, if ever, accountable for sexual sin." [Stoning is not being held accountable?] He cited a story in the OT, and sexualized it out of whole cloth, an indication of where his mind was. Rationalizing our sins is bad enough, but when we twist Scripture to give us permission to commit perversion, that's a WHOLE lot worse.
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Dan Z
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Dan Z »

Joy wrote:Several years ago a BA man whom I'd met on another forum took it upon himself to mentor me, for some reason, on sexuality. He stated, as best I can recall, "Under the Law, men were seldom, if ever, accountable for sexual sin." [Stoning is not being held accountable?] He cited a story in the OT, and sexualized it out of whole cloth, an indication of where his mind was. Rationalizing our sins is bad enough, but when we twist Scripture to give us permission to commit perversion, that's a WHOLE lot worse.
Unbridled patriarchy is a dangerous thing. I'm sorry you had to endure this kind of thinking Joy.
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by RZehr »

So last night after supper I spotted a book my wife has and I read it last night. It's called Protecting Their Purity. It is put out by the Keepers At Home magazine. I recommend this book to anyone who has children at home.

I notice at one place in the book they say that 1 in 7 girls in our circles suffer from some form of sexual abuse as compared to the 1/3 in society at large. But again, they put this number out without any citations at all.
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Dan Z
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Dan Z »

Hats Off wrote:And because of men like this I can not hug my grandchildren after they are about 6 to 8. Regardless of how much I may have wanted to, I cannot hug or even touch my daughter. We live in fear of being accused of being a molester. I just cannot fathom anyone molesting a daughter or granddaughter and not realizing how serious this is.
This makes me sad & sounds extreme to me Hat's Off. We're not an exceptionally huggy family, but I can't imagine my daughters (and sons) being robbed of their father's affection in the way you describe. Human's need touch to thrive and affirm the connections in their lives. Perhaps there is something in your situation that I don't fully understand - but in general, not showing appropriate physical affection to your daughters & granddaughters in reaction to the abuse of other depraved men is akin to "letting the terrorists win."
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appleman2006
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by appleman2006 »

Joy wrote:Several years ago a BA man whom I'd met on another forum took it upon himself to mentor me, for some reason, on sexuality. He stated, as best I can recall, "Under the Law, men were seldom, if ever, accountable for sexual sin." [Stoning is not being held accountable?] He cited a story in the OT, and sexualized it out of whole cloth, an indication of where his mind was. Rationalizing our sins is bad enough, but when we twist Scripture to give us permission to commit perversion, that's a WHOLE lot worse.
Very good post Joy. I have not run into this type of thinking often but I have occasionally and it makes my blood curdle. It is very wrong thinking and something I believe conservative Mennonites could become very susceptible within another generation or two if we are not already. We really do need strong straightforward teaching against this type of thing.
I am especially concerned when I hear the reasons Muslims especially ladies dress the way they do equated to the reasons we dress as we do. When ever you hear that type of thinking alarm bells should go off in your head.
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Hats Off
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Hats Off »

Dan Z wrote:
Hats Off wrote:And because of men like this I can not hug my grandchildren after they are about 6 to 8. Regardless of how much I may have wanted to, I cannot hug or even touch my daughter. We live in fear of being accused of being a molester. I just cannot fathom anyone molesting a daughter or granddaughter and not realizing how serious this is.
This makes me sad & sounds extreme to me Hat's Off. We're not an exceptionally huggy family, but I can't imagine my daughters (and sons) being robbed of their father's affection in the way you describe. Human's need touch to thrive and affirm the connections in their lives. Perhaps there is something in your situation that I don't fully understand - but in general, not showing appropriate physical affection to your daughters & granddaughters in reaction to the abuse of other depraved men is akin to "letting the terrorists win."
Hugging other than very little children is not well thought of in our particular society. I wish it were not so. I will hug 6 - 10 year old boys and girls but not older.
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

appleman2006 wrote:
Joy wrote:Several years ago a BA man whom I'd met on another forum took it upon himself to mentor me, for some reason, on sexuality. He stated, as best I can recall, "Under the Law, men were seldom, if ever, accountable for sexual sin." [Stoning is not being held accountable?] He cited a story in the OT, and sexualized it out of whole cloth, an indication of where his mind was. Rationalizing our sins is bad enough, but when we twist Scripture to give us permission to commit perversion, that's a WHOLE lot worse.
Very good post Joy. I have not run into this type of thinking often but I have occasionally and it makes my blood curdle. It is very wrong thinking and something I believe conservative Mennonites could become very susceptible within another generation or two if we are not already. We really do need strong straightforward teaching against this type of thing.
I am especially concerned when I hear the reasons Muslims especially ladies dress the way they do equated to the reasons we dress as we do. When ever you hear that type of thinking alarm bells should go off in your head.
You see a bit of this in the evangelical world, mostly the Gothard/Vision forum crowd. Pity what happened to their leadership...........

J.M.
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Dan Z
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Dan Z »

Hats Off wrote: Hugging other than very little children is not well thought of in our particular society. I wish it were not so. I will hug 6 - 10 year old boys and girls but not older.
Understood Hats Off - thanks
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Re: S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

Post by Sudsy »

I may have missed it somewhere in this thread but lets not forget the writer of The Politics Of Jesus, John H Yoder. Pentecostals have their Jimmy Swaggart and others, Anabaptists have Yoder, RCs have some priests.

Yoder is quite an example of using power for sexual abuse. 13 charges and one of the highest esteemed writers in Anabaptism. And he even had his excuses as 'he didn't mean to be harmful' and it wasn't 'intentional'. It really gets bad when we find scriptural support for these kind of things.

Anyway, like Peter, we better not consider we are beyond certain kinds of sinning. Peter said - deny you Lord, not me. But what happened. Pride comes before a fall. But our God is faithful and forgives us as if we never sinned. These sins leave scars but He can heal these too.
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