S. Stutzman claims 67% of Anabaptist women have been sexually abused

[Wade]

Somewhere upwards of 2/3 of girls in Anabaptist- type churches, it appears to me, are suffering extensively from something of sexual nature done to them.

Really confused here. So are there any real statistics or is it all personal whim? Did he walk into the room and just get the "feeling" that two out of every three women in the room had been sexually assaulted?
What are his qualifications for judging sexual misconduct based on surface impressions?

What concerns me is how readily someone will read this and just believe it as fact.

The only person that I got that impression from was you by posting such without comment.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Josh, out of curiousity, what's your purpose in sharing these claimed stats, and the particular fact that they come from Steve Stutzman?

2/3 seemed a bit high, so I wanted to hear the opinions of others.

In the interests of full disclosure, Stutzman is of the opinion I have a rebellious spirit, a contrary spirit, an accusing spirit, and am not born again (and he was successful for about a month in convincing me of the latter). I’m very grateful to ministers in a Beachy congregation and in a Holdeman congregation for awakening me from my stupor and helping me find assurance of salvation again.

But my own conflict with Stutzman has nothing to do with the text I quoted in full.

Pardon my NAB ignorance but who is this guy anyway and what qualifies him to report such a statistic?

<<Somewhere upwards of 2/3 of girls in Anabaptist- type churches, it appears to me, are suffering extensively from something of sexual nature done to them. >>

Hard evidence? Feelings? Another N=1 observation?

What qualifies him to make such a sweeping statement without any evidence to back it up? Is it because it is the "in" thing now?

As usual, the "devil" is likely in the definition. Does a guy flashing my brother and I as a college elevator opened count? Than I would be part of that statistic, if I were a woman? The individual got two really cold sodas, with ice, tossed at him so I guess he would be easier to find when the campus police went looking for him.

In short, what you define as "abuse" makes ALL the difference. Reporting such statistics without any criteria for abuse or methodology only serves the point he appears to be trying to make, whether or not there is any truth to what he is suggesting.

I also suspect that the criteria for rebellion, and being contrary could be "He disagrees with whatever point I am trying to make." If I were so inclined, I could likely point out the statistical fallacies this is likely based on, that is, if they exist at all. Statistics and evidence DOES matter, and is important. It is the only way we can sort truth from "air."

Another point is, that reports of this, that lead to intensive searches for this sort of things, are likely to find it, whether it happened or not. This is particularly true if finding it bolsters whatever your agenda is. I will remind you of the McMartin Preschool Incident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

There was no "there" there. While I am sure that some may have been abused (True in any population) reporting such statistics serves no one, except the one reporting it.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Josh, out of curiousity, what's your purpose in sharing these claimed stats, and the particular fact that they come from Steve Stutzman?

2/3 seemed a bit high, so I wanted to hear the opinions of others.

In the interests of full disclosure, Stutzman is of the opinion I have a rebellious spirit, a contrary spirit, an accusing spirit, and am not born again (and he was successful for about a month in convincing me of the latter). I’m very grateful to ministers in a Beachy congregation and in a Holdeman congregation for awakening me from my stupor and helping me find assurance of salvation again.

But my own conflict with Stutzman has nothing to do with the text I quoted in full.

Pardon my NAB ignorance but who is this guy anyway and what qualifies him to report such a statistic?

<<Somewhere upwards of 2/3 of girls in Anabaptist- type churches, it appears to me, are suffering extensively from something of sexual nature done to them. >>

Hard evidence? Feelings? Another N=1 observation?

What qualifies him to make such a sweeping statement without any evidence to back it up? Is it because it is the "in" thing now?

As usual, the "devil" is likely in the definition. Does a guy flashing my brother and I as a college elevator opened count? Than I would be part of that statistic, if I were a woman? The individual got two really cold sodas, with ice, tossed at him so I guess he would be easier to find when the campus police went looking for him.

In short, what you define as "abuse" makes ALL the difference. Reporting such statistics without any criteria for abuse or methodology only serves the point he appears to be trying to make, whether or not there is any truth to what he is suggesting.

I also suspect that the criteria for rebellion, and being contrary could be "He disagrees with whatever point I am trying to make." If I were so inclined, I could likely point out the statistical fallacies this is likely based on, that is, if they exist at all. Statistics and evidence DOES matter, and is important. It is the only way we can sort truth from "air."

Another point is, that reports of this, that lead to intensive searches for this sort of things, are likely to find it, whether it happened or not. This is particularly true if finding it bolsters whatever your agenda is. I will remind you of the McMartin Preschool Incident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

There was no "there" there. While I am sure that some may have been abused (True in any population) reporting such statistics serves no one, except the one reporting it.

J.M.

Oh him, the "Mission to Amish People" guy. What, has he run out of Amish to try to convince that they are unregenerate and is now going to work conservative mennonites?

He has an agenda. I would give this ZERO creditability.

J.M.

[Peregrino]

You all seem to be missing the part where he says, "it appears to me". He and his wife and fellow team members work with abused people all. the. time. For years. Day after day. Story after story. Lives twisted, broken, and scarred within the conservative anabaptist movement while everyone tries desperately to keep it shoved under the rug. I hear him crying out from a heart traumatized and overwhelmed by the enormity of it, simply wanting it to stop.

I have been to the meetings they hold occasionally to help people get free of the residues of sexual abuse. And for those of you saying it doesn't happen here, I can only believe you are either blind, ignorant, or you did not grow up in the same conservative anabaptist movement that I did. I was sexually abused as a 4 year old boy by an older mentally challenged relative, who I am sure was only passing on what was done to him by others. At the age of 6 I became an abuser seeking out younger boys for sexual acts. I know my experience is not an isolated one. As an adult, I took part along with the whole church in hiding a child abuser from the law when I was still a member of a conservative anabaptist church. And later we had to hide the former victim as well when he became an abuser. Regardless of the shiny veneer that is presented to the world, sexual abuse and covering it up are major problems in conservative Anabaptism. It's not just the old orders, either, the setting I described is quite firmly within the "born-again" movement.

I struggle with taking my children back to visit relatives still in those places, knowing what is hiding there, unaddressed and protected by the system in power. Dear people, if you grew up conservative anabaptist and didn't experience sexual abuse, thank God and protect your children with everything you have. But, please, I beg of you not to take pot shots at those who are scarred by what has happened there and especially not those who are trying to do something about it and provide a safe place where people can finally come out, talk about it, and begin stumbling their way toward healing.

[Judas Maccabeus]

You all seem to be missing the part where he says, "it appears to me". He and his wife and fellow team members work with abused people all. the. time. For years. Day after day. Story after story. Lives twisted, broken, and scarred within the conservative anabaptist movement while everyone tries desperately to keep it shoved under the rug. I hear him crying out from a heart traumatized and overwhelmed by the enormity of it, simply wanting it to stop.

I have been to the meetings they hold occasionally to help people get free of the residues of sexual abuse. And for those of you saying it doesn't happen here, I can only believe you are either blind, ignorant, or you did not grow up in the same conservative anabaptist movement that I did. I was sexually abused as a 4 year old boy by an older mentally challenged relative, who I am sure was only passing on what was done to him by others. At the age of 6 I became an abuser seeking out younger boys for sexual acts. I know my experience is not an isolated one. As an adult, I took part along with the whole church in hiding a child abuser from the law when I was still a member of a conservative anabaptist church. And later we had to hide the former victim as well when he became an abuser. Regardless of the shiny veneer that is presented to the world, sexual abuse and covering it up are major problems in conservative Anabaptism. It's not just the old orders, either, the setting I described is quite firmly within the "born-again" movement.

I struggle with taking my children back to visit relatives still in those places, knowing what is hiding there, unaddressed and protected by the system in power. Dear people, if you grew up conservative anabaptist and didn't experience sexual abuse, thank God and protect your children with everything you have. But, please, I beg of you not to take pot shots at those who are scarred by what has happened there and especially not those who are trying to do something about it and provide a safe place where people can finally come out, talk about it, and begin stumbling their way toward healing.

As I opened, pardon my NAB ignorance. No one is taking pot shots at victims, only this obviously false statement.

But throwing out numbers like that without evidence, and yes, without evidence would be like my stating that there is a cancer epidemic, because everyone I see has cancer......now I work in a university affiliated comprehensive cancer center. But I realize that my experience creates a skewed sample, so I would never report as truth what I see, and extrapolate it on a population that I have not sampled. That is the responsible way of reporting data. The "in my experience" line is meaningless unless the experience is stated. He reports from a highly skewed sample, and than extrapolates it on a larger population that he has not sampled randomly. That is bad methodology that results in a false conclusion.

I am truly sorry you had such a bad experience. In the neighborhood I grew up in, we had the neighborhood molester, and I would not let my children roam free when I visited my parents. He was never reported to police as far as I know, and this was in an upstanding middle class neighborhood. We all need to be vigilant as predators tend to see churches as easy places to get access. It has been a big problem in Roman Catholicism, and may be an even bigger problem in the evangelical movement.

But once again, throwing out numbers that you SHOULD know are wrong just creates a atmosphere that obscures the true problem, which we need to be constantly vigilant for, and forgive the perpetrator, but recognize that he has violated Caesars law, and to Caesar he must be accountable to.

In other words, such must be turned over to the law for the appropriate trial and punishment.

J.M.

[steve-in-kville]

Define sexual abuse, please.

If its defined like the company I work for, who has a very strict abuse/harassment policy, I could look at a woman the wrong way and if she feels uncomfortable, I'm in trouble.

I'd really like you folks to define abuse in the claim.

[Peregrino]

I guess that is what I was trying to communicate without having to say it out loud. This is something for which it is impossible to get an accurate evidence-based count. But the 2 in 3 figures sounds about right for where I grew up. Our church took in a number of "refugees" from one of the few "revived" fellowships more conservative than ours and, based on the stories told by fellow school children, I think I would be safe to say the number was very close to 100% from that circle. So his number does not sound exaggerated to me, but the experiences of others may be such that they might perceive it differently. Let's work together to bring about positive change instead of trying to protect the veneer and undercutting those who are pointing out the rottenness at the core of the culture.

[Sudsy]

I think there needs to be some room in one's thinking for sexual development when young. There is some sexual exploring that can go on in our early years that I don't regard as abuse. Like what does the opposite sex private parts look like and some of the discovering that goes on in this area amongst children. But adults getting involved with children in a touching way is another story.

There is an area of sexual abuse that I don't hear discussed much and could be very real for some couples. Rape within marriage. What I'm talking about is non-consensual sex within marriage. For instance a Christian husband can have a warped view of their wives submitting to them for sex when they want it whether the wife wants it or not at that point in time. I wonder just how much that occurs in faith groups that are strong on the wives being in submission. It just seems to me that if consensual sex is not taught in the pulpit, then this may be occurring. Even though we are not to regard our bodies as our own in marriage, there is no license to freely demand sex when desired. Men are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. I'm not going to take this further but I have heard Christian youth tell me of the kind of submitting their mother had to make and sometimes the beatings. I can only suspect sometimes sex was also a forced area.

I have heard also of women who were raised and taught that submission in sex at all times was their duty. I think this is a very warped interpreting of scripture.

[Valerie]

Oh him, the "Mission to Amish People" guy. What, has he run out of Amish to try to convince that they are unregenerate and is now going to work conservative mennonites?

He has an agenda. I would give this ZERO creditability.

J.M.

No, Steve Stutzman is not the Mission to Amish guy- Steve is highly respected & counsels the hurting-

[Valerie]

You all seem to be missing the part where he says, "it appears to me". He and his wife and fellow team members work with abused people all. the. time. For years. Day after day. Story after story. Lives twisted, broken, and scarred within the conservative anabaptist movement while everyone tries desperately to keep it shoved under the rug. I hear him crying out from a heart traumatized and overwhelmed by the enormity of it, simply wanting it to stop.

I have been to the meetings they hold occasionally to help people get free of the residues of sexual abuse. And for those of you saying it doesn't happen here, I can only believe you are either blind, ignorant, or you did not grow up in the same conservative anabaptist movement that I did. I was sexually abused as a 4 year old boy by an older mentally challenged relative, who I am sure was only passing on what was done to him by others. At the age of 6 I became an abuser seeking out younger boys for sexual acts. I know my experience is not an isolated one. As an adult, I took part along with the whole church in hiding a child abuser from the law when I was still a member of a conservative anabaptist church. And later we had to hide the former victim as well when he became an abuser. Regardless of the shiny veneer that is presented to the world, sexual abuse and covering it up are major problems in conservative Anabaptism. It's not just the old orders, either, the setting I described is quite firmly within the "born-again" movement.

I struggle with taking my children back to visit relatives still in those places, knowing what is hiding there, unaddressed and protected by the system in power. Dear people, if you grew up conservative anabaptist and didn't experience sexual abuse, thank God and protect your children with everything you have. But, please, I beg of you not to take pot shots at those who are scarred by what has happened there and especially not those who are trying to do something about it and provide a safe place where people can finally come out, talk about it, and begin stumbling their way toward healing.

Amen, thank you for sharing the hard & painful experiences, more people are able to because of those that are willing to-
If you are following his facebook post- you will recognize the last names of those who are commenting are mostly from Anabaptist heritage & for the most part, they are not surprised at this-