Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?

[Signtist]

Then I also need to wonder if there isn't a direct spiritual connection as well. Jesus didn't tell possessed people to just quit their behaviours. He delivered them. I suspect there is something we could learn about the connection between the spirit realm and drug use.

[Ken]

Ultimately, stopping using drugs isn't that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they'll stop using and get clean.

My spirit disagrees with this statement. It could be correct, somehow. It is also unhelpful and in my opinion barely passes the test of Christian charity.

It isn't actually accurate.

Many, perhaps even most addicts do not quit when they reach rock bottom. They stay addicted until they finally die. Either directly or indirectly of their drug use.

The more relevant question is this: What are the most effective means of turning people around and getting them off drugs. I have seen several methods mentioned:

1. Religion. If we can just manage to bring them to Jesus the rest will take care of itself. Every city with a skid row usually has Gospel Missions of various sorts and all manner of mission work happening.

2. Harm reduction. These are the people who hand out clean needles and advocate for providing safe sites for drug injection. The mentality behind this approach is to alleviate the worst effects of drug abuse and try to build trusting relationships with addicts in order that....well, the part that comes next is never quite articulated or implemented. And this approach often becomes an end in itself.

3. Forcible or mandatory rehab. This requires the intervention of the legal system to force people to rehab and get clean. Either by empowering families to involuntarily commit family members to rehab, or through diversionary programs as part of sentencing. It means keeping drugs illegal. And it is also by FAR the most expensive approach since there is nothing cheap about running mandatory rehab centers.

I'm sure there are other approaches and various combinations of the above. And I am simplifying. But these are three distinct approaches that come to mind.

Of these three approaches, the statistics show that forcible rehab gets the best results. And even those results are limited. Some people you are just never going to be able to help. That is a reality we need to live with. The bigger question is how are we going to live with it? Openly on or streets and in our parks? Or absconded away and out of the public view. People are clearly tiring of living with it openly. And that is also tied together with the homeless issue.

[RZehr]

If it's so simple, why are we such abject failures at helping people with addiction? "They just didn't want to be free badly enough." Sounds like a cliche cop out.

Glib clichés haven't solved the drug epidemic up until now, and I don't foresee them solving it in the near future.

As much as we like and want to help, want to see lives transformed and delivered, or else might just have a saviour complex, the success ultimately rests on the addict. There is no technique, no empathy, no magic formula that can be found. They need to do it largely themselves - yes, we want to be there to help where possible, but our role is a small supporting role at most. But nonetheless a role that I think is important to fulfill.

Having made personal costly, money losing investments in commercial real estate and turned it into homeless shelter; volunteered at gospel missions; have been instrumental in starting up and financing a shower program and mobile medical service for the homeless; given lots of handouts in the form of tents, clothing, etc; housed them in my home; picked them up for church - I am not speaking out of callousness or complete inexperience.

[steve-in-kville]

Since starting this thread, I've been to listening/reading many addict's accounts of what made them get sober, either on their own or through a rehab facility or program. They all were very different: some hit a rock bottom as Josh mentioned. Other were able to see their own downward spiraling and came to their senses and got help. Some had family/friends stage an intervention and they self-committed to rehab.

And their childhoods were just as diverse: good homes, druggie homes, and everything in between. As I've heard before, addiction isn't prejudice on who it takes on as a victim.

[Ken]

Since starting this thread, I've been to listening/reading many addict's accounts of what made them get sober, either on their own or through a rehab facility or program. They all were very different: some hit a rock bottom as Josh mentioned. Other were able to see their own downward spiraling and came to their senses and got help. Some had family/friends stage an intervention and they self-committed to rehab.

And their childhoods were just as diverse: good homes, druggie homes, and everything in between. As I've heard before, addiction isn't prejudice on who it takes on as a victim.

There is also something of a confirmation bias involved with looking at success stories. The failed cases don't write books about the things they tried that didn't work.

So if we are going to really understand which approaches work best we need to look at success RATES of various approaches. Everyone's story is obviously different. But they are not all that different. Because the neurological basis for addiction to a particular drug is similar for everyone. So we can look for and find patterns in the noise. And those patterns can tell us which approaches have the highest success rates.

Also, each drug itself is different and might require different approaches. "Hitting Rock Bottom" is something we commonly talk about when it comes to alcoholics. And the whole industry of alcohol addiction (AA, etc.) seems premised on hitting rock bottom. But it isn't the way one usually talks about nicotine addiction at all. People will just keep smoking and smoking until they die of heart disease or lung cancer. There isn't really any rock bottom to smoking. And with deadlier drugs like Fentanyl, a lot of people die of overdoses before they hit something that might be called "rock bottom"

[Signtist]

As much as we like and want to help, want to see lives transformed and delivered, or else might just have a saviour complex, the success ultimately rests on the addict. There is no technique, no empathy, no magic formula that can be found. They need to do it largely themselves - yes, we want to be there to help where possible, but our role is a small supporting role at most. But nonetheless a role that I think is important to fulfill.

Having made personal costly, money losing investments in commercial real estate and turned it into homeless shelter; volunteered at gospel missions; have been instrumental in starting up and financing a shower program and mobile medical service for the homeless; given lots of handouts in the form of tents, clothing, etc; housed them in my home; picked them up for church - I am not speaking out of callousness or complete inexperience.

I don't doubt you care. All I was saying was I disbelieved Josh very much when he said "ultimately quitting is easy." I don't speak from a naive position either. I wish I could.

[steve-in-kville]

Also, each drug itself is different and might require different approaches. "Hitting Rock Bottom" is something we commonly talk about when it comes to alcoholics. And the whole industry of alcohol addiction (AA, etc.) seems premised on hitting rock bottom.

I also have come to understand that what is one addict's rock bottom could be another's "business as usual."

One lady that was interviewed made a comment along the lines that as long as she was just smoking meth and not injecting it, she was not a *real* junkie.

Same person made the observation that when she was court-ordered to attend NA meetings, the other participants would trade secrets on how to mask the drugs in their urine to pass random tests from their PO. She was the only one in her NA meetings that was honestly not using anymore!

[NedFlanders]

This subject should be spun off into its own thread. I see both Sightist's point and Josh's, both at the same time.

I'm not gonna fight about it. Josh is absolutely right that nobody quits until they hit rock bottom. He is also right that drug use is a choice. I doubt very much that he's correct when he says it's "ultimately easy."

If it's so simple, why are we such abject failures at helping people with addiction? "They just didn't want to be free badly enough." Sounds like a cliche cop out.

Glib clichés haven't solved the drug epidemic up until now, and I don't foresee them solving it in the near future.

Josh is absolutely right. The main strength of addiction is believing it is too hard. The addict has accepted it is too hard and so he makes it that way through his belief. Anybody I’ve seen escape addiction has had to believe that it isn’t too hard and part of that is not focusing so much on it. If we don’t recognize these couple things we aren’t going to help any addict.

[Signtist]

OK.

[Josh]

Drug use and addiction is like any other sin: do you want to keep sinning, or do you want to stop? There is a Saviour who does help bring freedom from sin.

Often, the addict is willing to give up 99% of their problem, but not 100%, over to Jesus. One fellow I worked with for a while (and a few friends were trying to help get clean) quit using everything except cigarettes. Eventually, that 1% he wouldn't yield dragged him back down.

I also have seen men who have "addictions" to things like pornography, going to strip clubs, etc. who get mostly clean. But they won't give it up, 100%. They always want to save just one little bit. And they end up never getting free either.

And I'm sorry, but at the end of the day... choosing to look at porn or go to a strip club is a choice. I don't buy the "the addiction made me do it" line. You had a choice not to get in your car and drive there. And if you're powerless to resist that, well, maybe get rid of your car so you can't drive there. Get rid of your phone & Internet so you can't see porn.

Jesus told us that if your right arm offends you, cut it off. And that is figuratively what a lot of addicts need to do to get clean. Completely remove themselves from any chance to ever use again.

I used to know someone who was a heroin & cocaine addict (depending on the plans for the day). Eventually, she decided she did really want to get clean, 100%, and never relapse again. She did two things:

#1, stopped smoking cigarettes.

#2, put herself in a lifestyle where she was never really by herself and always had accountability for what she was doing. No idle time, no time spent with any questionable characters or friends.

Guess what, now she is married, with children, living a normal life.