Where Mennonites and others connect
https://forum.mennonet.com/
And my own limitations. The outline it generated match well with the Mennonites and Anabaptists I know best.
The dynamics are basically as you described but I would add that dispensationalism entered Lancaster Conference in the early 1900s, prior to the formation of Eastern. So there was a reaching for Fundamentalism/dispensationalism in the early 20th century after losing the Old Orders in the 1890s. (Dispensationalism was controversial then, and there were always some amillenials in Lancaster Conference and then in Eastern, of course).RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:59 pm My opinion and theory is that when it started, Eastern was so sick of relativism and growing worldliness in the Mennonite church, that they over corrected into fundamentalism or literalism.
And they found themselves with a mindset that left little room for not taking the Bible (N.T. teachings) literally. And they were and are terribly uncomfortable with making any exceptions to that approach for Revelation.
I could be wrong here. It’s just something I suspect.
I do think that with dispensationalism teaching that Jesus teachings are in a different dispensation than church age dispensation, (my understanding of this subject is that the change point in time between these two dispensations was marked by the resurrection.) it has stopped Mennonites from become super bought in. Because we have never, and refuse to, say that Jesus teachings belong to a prior dispensation. We believe them to be core.
Wife: many of them (not all) would be pre trib premillinials. At least the ones I know allow the possibility of being wrong, and are not as political as the Protestant version. I’m thankful to say that the minister here doesn’t seem to like the left behind books, and none of the people I know think the current state of Israel is following God or there are two paths to salvation.Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:21 pmAnd my own limitations. The outline it generated match well with the Mennonites and Anabaptists I know best.
So ... what should I know about Pilgrim or Eastern?
I agree - and Mennonites have generally believed that suffering and martyrdom can be part of God's plan, so the escape hatch aspect of pre-trib seems like an odd fit.RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:59 pmI do think that with dispensationalism teaching that Jesus teachings are in a different dispensation than church age dispensation, (my understanding of this subject is that the change point in time between these two dispensations was marked by the resurrection.) it has stopped Mennonites from become super bought in. Because we have never, and refuse to, say that Jesus teachings belong to a prior dispensation. We believe them to be core.
Basically, the loudest Bible thumpers seem to be pre-trib rapture in modern America? I get that. Biblical authority is important. Better stick with people who are saying that.RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:59 pm My opinion and theory is that when it started, Eastern was so sick of relativism and growing worldliness in the Mennonite church, that they over corrected into fundamentalism or literalism.
And they found themselves with a mindset that left little room for not taking the Bible (N.T. teachings) literally. And they were and are terribly uncomfortable with making any exceptions to that approach for Revelation.
I could be wrong here. It’s just something I suspect.
The vision of a coming apocalypse is quite sturdy, it survives after all other biblical beliefs are cast off. Even secularists and atheists still see an apocalypse in the future.
Among the groups I'm most familiar with (moderate, fundamental/progressive, and theological conservatives), amillenials are a small minority, as are extreme dispensationalists. Most would be premillenial, either of the historic variety or a modified dispensationalism that does not reject the teachings of Jesus.cmbl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:25 pmThe dynamics are basically as you described but I would add that dispensationalism entered Lancaster Conference in the early 1900s, prior to the formation of Eastern. So there was a reaching for Fundamentalism/dispensationalism in the early 20th century after losing the Old Orders in the 1890s. (Dispensationalism was controversial then, and there were always some amillenials in Lancaster Conference and then in Eastern, of course).RZehr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:59 pm My opinion and theory is that when it started, Eastern was so sick of relativism and growing worldliness in the Mennonite church, that they over corrected into fundamentalism or literalism.
And they found themselves with a mindset that left little room for not taking the Bible (N.T. teachings) literally. And they were and are terribly uncomfortable with making any exceptions to that approach for Revelation.
I could be wrong here. It’s just something I suspect.
I do think that with dispensationalism teaching that Jesus teachings are in a different dispensation than church age dispensation, (my understanding of this subject is that the change point in time between these two dispensations was marked by the resurrection.) it has stopped Mennonites from become super bought in. Because we have never, and refuse to, say that Jesus teachings belong to a prior dispensation. We believe them to be core.